BEVs

[Bonefishblues]

Fiskers are very good value at the moment I notice

[Carlton green]

Fiskers are very good value at the moment I notice

Checking Autotrader that seeming ‘good value’ is true. However, if I’m correct, Fisker have stopped trading so good luck with getting spare parts for your wonder car, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Inc.

imho any car for which replacement parts aren’t readily available both now and well into the future is of limited value. Stuff (component parts) wears out and if you have a prang then new (car) body parts will (also) likely be needed. Part of why BEV’s are so expensive to insure is down to concerns on repairability, seemingly BEV’s too often end up being scrapped rather than repaired.

[Bonefishblues]

It's rather worse than that, because functionality derived from online connectivity has ceased to function on Fiskers, so owners found their cars functionality had decreased overnight, with no way to restore it unless a new owner was found. Decent stocks of physical parts are in the hands of specialists who continue to support the cars.

Stats indicate bev vehicles are actually significantly less likely to be written off than ice cars, incidentally. A study by Cap HPI (spanning 2015–2024) found that only 0.9% of EVs under five years old were written off, compared to 1.89% of petrol and diesel vehicles.

And here: https://mannisland.co.uk/electric-vehic ... es%20(EVs).

[Carlton green]

It's rather worse than that, because functionality derived from online connectivity has ceased to function on Fiskers, so owners found their cars functionality had decreased overnight, with no way to restore it unless a new owner was found. Decent stocks of physical parts are in the hands of specialists who continue to support the cars.

Stats indicate bev vehicles are actually significantly less likely to be written off than ice cars, incidentally. A study by Cap HPI (spanning 2015–2024) found that only 0.9% of EVs under five years old were written off, compared to 1.89% of petrol and diesel vehicles.

And here: https://mannisland.co.uk/electric-vehic ... es%20(EVs).

Yes, when software support goes down then with BEV’s you’ve got a big problem. As far as I’m concerned modern cars are far too complex.

I’m surprised at the article, perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye? BEV’s are (to my observation) all in noticeably higher insurance groups than comparable IC cars and I wonder what the reason for that could be. The VW UP is a good example: group 1 or 2 in petrol form and group 10 or 11 in BEV form. Looking further;

[as CAP HPI spokesman Jon Clay explained.

“The study challenges one of the many misconceptions about electric vehicles. The data clearly shows that EVs are written off at half the rate of petrol and diesel vehicles,” he said, but added there could be any number of different factors at play.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/consumer- ... or-diesels
My underlining.

According to the Association of British Insurers (ABI), repair costs for EVs are, on average, around 25% more expensive than their petrol or diesel equivalents, and they take approximately 14% longer to fix. This isn't a minor statistical blip; it's a fundamental shift that is forcing insurers to rethink how they calculate risk and price their motor policies.

https://wecovr.com/guides/uk-electric-car-repair-shock/

Early research suggests that electric vehicles are approximately 25% more expensive to repair than their petrol equivalents and take 14% longer to fix. 5

https://www.abi.org.uk/news/news-articl ... tle-costs/
That article references an independent report by motor industry experts.

[wheelyhappy99]

The fleet manager for Openreach appears set on buying many more EVs.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... dApp_Other

[Jules59]

"According to the Association of British Insurers (ABI), repair costs for EVs are, on average, around 25% more expensive than their petrol or diesel equivalents, and they take approximately 14% longer to fix. This isn't a minor statistical blip; it's a fundamental shift that is forcing insurers to rethink how they calculate risk and price their motor policies."

Is one reason because as most BEVs are new and still under warrant they are being serviced and repaired at main dealerships which are inherently much more expensive than your local village garage.
I get my cars serviced (when im not doing it myself) at our local garage. The owner says he's got enough ICE cars to work on until retirement to not need to re-equip and train to work with BEVs etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens when out-of-warranty BEVs need repairs . Having said that a lot of a BEV is just standard car stuff - brakes , suspension etc. Its the 400V DC stuff that scares me !

[UpWrong]

"According to the Association of British Insurers (ABI), repair costs for EVs are, on average, around 25% more expensive than their petrol or diesel equivalents, and they take approximately 14% longer to fix. This isn't a minor statistical blip; it's a fundamental shift that is forcing insurers to rethink how they calculate risk and price their motor policies."

BEVs may be taking longer to fix because a high proportion of them come from the far east, i.e. China or S. Korea. Parts from European made cars have always been more readily available. I expect parts for Renault, VW and Citroen are more likely to be easier to get hold of.

[RickH]

An interesting observation from Robert Llewellyn (Everything Electric/Scrapheap Challenge/Kryten from Red Dwarf) on battery prices in a blog on Substack. (my bold)

https://open.substack.com/pub/llewellyn ... started-it

...I’ve just driven the Leapmotor TO3 from one end of Wales to the other, down a road with the least charging infrastructure in the UK.

It was fine, the car is ridiculously comfortable for such a petite machine, it has a real world genuine 130 mile range, in mid winter, in heavy rain, going up and down hills.

It has a 36 kWh usable battery, and it costs £14,500 on the road.

In 2010 the battery alone would have cost $43,200 or around about £32,000...

...Oh, and just in case anyone wants to kick off, the LFP battery in the Leapmotor TO3 contains zero nickel or cobalt, it won’t ever catch fire and it will last longer than the car...

[swagman]

The fleet manager for Openreach appears set on buying many more EVs.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... dApp_Other

Must have around 100 mile range when loaded up.
Always seeing there vans on charge outside Greggs.

[UpWrong]

The new MG4 Urban is interesting. New platform, new body, new battery, new suspension. Bigger than the old MG4. The long range version has an LFP battery, 53KwH and a range of 258 miles. What is interesting is the weight. Now 1520Kg, previously 1655Kg for the MG4 52KwH LFP version.

For the size of the car, with an LFP battery with a 53 KwH capacity, that weight is remarkably low.

[Carlton green]

The fleet manager for Openreach appears set on buying many more EVs.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... dApp_Other

Must have around 100 mile range when loaded up.
Always seeing there vans on charge outside Greggs.

How much range does a mobile tool shed need and particularly so when it’s working from local depots?

The purchase of electric propelled vehicles will be trumpeted but, if we’re being even handed, a lot of businesses find that fossil fuel still meets their needs better. As battery technology improves there will doubtless be less incentive to remain with fossil fuel but it’ll be a while yet.

The new MG4 Urban is interesting. New platform, new body, new battery, new suspension. Bigger than the old MG4. The long range version has an LFP battery, 53KwH and a range of 258 miles. What is interesting is the weight. Now 1520Kg, previously 1655Kg for the MG4 52KwH LFP version.

For the size of the car, with an LFP battery with a 53 KwH battery, that weight is remarkably low.

It’ll be interesting to see how MG support or not their customers over the medium and long term. As a generality - not MG specific - I think that battery technology is making great strides but from what I read elsewhere the reliability and support of software, electronics and even cabling is mixed.

[UpWrong]

It’ll be interesting to see how MG support or not their customers over the medium and long term. As a generality - not MG specific - I think that battery technology is making great strides but from what I read elsewhere the reliability and support of software, electronics and even cabling is mixed.

MG dealers are franchises, some good, some not so good. MG will only pay dealers for warranty work so there's a tension around deciding what's in the warranty and what isn't. No one wants to be out of pocket.

The Chinese still appear to have the lead in battery technology, They are really pushing ahead with the safety standards as well as energy density.

[Carlton green]

It’ll be interesting to see how MG support or not their customers over the medium and long term. As a generality - not MG specific - I think that battery technology is making great strides but from what I read elsewhere the reliability and support of software, electronics and even cabling is mixed.

MG dealers are franchises, some good, some not so good. MG will only pay dealers for warranty work so there's a tension around deciding what's in the warranty and what isn't. No one wants to be out of pocket.

For a mix of reasons I’m quite doubtful of getting spare parts for Chinese vehicles, time will tell if my concerns are well founded. Car dealers vary and their bottom line is short term profit and cash-flow ahead of customer satisfaction, thought I understand that they have bills to pay too, etc.

Casually talking to the owner of a large Hyundai BEV he extolled its virtues - including a usefully better range on long journeys- and then went on to say how his MG experience had not been so good. His old MG - which he’d owned for a few years and put miles on - had a limited range and particularly so in winter, the mileage left indicator was really unreliable, and they’d had to top-up charge in some dodgy places that his Mrs wouldn’t have dreamt of going to by herself. He also told me that that he regarded home charging as essential - wouldn’t have a BEV without it - and they’d kept an old diesel as a back-up vehicle for dog walking and runs to the tip, etc. (the dirty stuff).

He’d ordered to new version of the MG4 but delivery hadn’t happened so he cancelled the order which resulted in a stream of abuse from the dealer. Experiences aren’t always common, but I’m now cautious about (potentially) dealing with that particular garage.

The Chinese still appear to have the lead in battery technology, They are really pushing ahead with the safety standards as well as energy density.

I watch those changes with interest and anticipate the price of new BEV’s continually dropping as battery technology advances and battery prices drop.

[UpWrong]

For a mix of reasons I’m quite doubtful of getting spare parts for Chinese vehicles, time will tell if my concerns are well founded. Car dealers vary and their bottom line is short term profit and cash-flow ahead of customer satisfaction, thought I understand that they have bills to pay too, etc.

Casually talking to the owner of a large Hyundai BEV he extolled its virtues and then went on to say how his MG experience had not been so good. His old MG - which he’d owned for a few years and put miles on - had a limited range in winter, the mileage left indicator was really unreliable, and they’d had to top-up charge in some dodgy places that his Mrs wouldn’t have dreamt of going to by herself. He also told me that that he regarded home charging as essential - wouldn’t have a BEV without it - and they’d had to kept an old diesel as a back-up vehicle for dog walking and runs to the tip, etc. (the dirty stuff).

He’d ordered to new version of the MG4 but delivery hadn’t happened so he cancelled the order which resulted in a stream of abuse from the dealer. Experiences aren’t always common, but I’m now cautious about (potentially) dealing with that particular garage.

The Chinese still appear to have the lead in battery technology, They are really pushing ahead with the safety standards as well as energy density.

I watch those changes with interest and anticipate the price of new BEV’s continually dropping as battery technology advances and battery prices drop.

Generally, availability of MG parts is not an issue - but I would be wary of other Chinese makes.

A disadvantage of LFP batteries is that the range "guess-ometer" is not as accurate as with NMC batteries and needs calibrating once a month by charging to 100%.

[Carlton green]

Generally, availability of MG parts is not an issue - but I would be wary of other Chinese makes.

A disadvantage of LFP batteries is that the range "guess-ometer" is not as accurate as with NMC batteries and needs calibrating once a month by charging to 100%.

Thank you for that assurance from, I assume, your experiences and research.

Yes, at the time it hadn’t occurred to me that he’d an LFP battery in the MG. The LFP batteries have a relatively flat voltage versus discharge ‘graph’, and hence it’s difficult for the instrumentation to reliably indicate the remaining charge in those batteries. Of course LFP batteries have some superior features, but they’re lost in the ‘background’ when your Mrs is explaining to you her range anxiety and the (lack of) value of the GOM.