Vegetarian stuff

[mig]

Bread accounts for 23% of my total calorie intake but only 7.8% of the cost. The seeded loaf I buy at £0.58/1000kcal isn't the cheapest, but I switched to it because it's one of very few that don't count as ultra processed. Overall my diet averages £1.51/1000kcal, which is less than any of the foodstuffs you cite as economical.

I'm only quoting part of your last post, but it is all really interesting. It's nice to meet someone who is perhaps even more analytical about their diet than me!

Bread is, I would say, an area where you could both reduce cost and improve quality quite substantially. Given that it forms a large part of your diet, it wouldn't be unreasonable to prioritise it.

Baking bread at home is an absolute doddle. I do 8 loaves at a time (the capacity of my oven), which is about 4.7kg of flour (approx) and 200-300g various seeds. It takes 20 minutes of prep time (mixing all ingredients, kneading, putting to rise, kneading again briefly and portioning out into the tins) and costs about £4.50 all in for 7-8kg of bread.

But the issue with cooking and baking in such bulk is storage, and this is one of the aspects of food poverty that I don't think people think about.

People of low economic means usually live in poor quality housing. It could be argued that in the UK, most housing fits that description, but it's especially pronounced in this demographic.

It mainly means that you have very little space. Possibly an undercounter freezer and that's it.

It means you can't bulk cook. You can't buy things when they're cheap and store it. You can't pick fruit when it's in season and freeze it. It's really, really limiting.

We are fortunate to be in the position of having three large chest freezers and a fridge freezer, plus another full height fridge. We could have more freezers if we want to and we also have a large pantry.

So if things are heavily reduced, we buy bloody loads of it. We come to the UK once a year in the car and stock up on stuff. Sardines (for example) are 50p a tin in the UK and £1.10 here. So I buy 150 tins in the UK to do me the year. 50-70kg wholemeal flour (you can't get 100% wholemeal here), some of which I have to freeze.

Anyway, I could list many more examples, but so many houses in the UK are built with woefully inadequate kitchens and food storage, so it's no wonder there is such a market for ready (junk) meals.

I will need to work out what my diet costs, but I think it's broadly similar to yours at about £1.35-1.50 per 1000kcal. Where it gets expensive is that I average about 6000-6500kcal a day, and sometimes quite a bit more on heavy training days. Because I'm 100kg and competitive, I average 1000-1400kcal an hour on the bike. Some of that is fueled with simple sugar, but not all of it.

from where are sardines 50p a tin? sounds cheap.

[al_yrpal]

Apparently, Aldi, Asda, Sainsbury and Tesco do 50p sardines although there is often some price fluctuation. I like the variety you can get from those French specialist sardine shops. And, you cannot beat those Portuguese monster sardines usually cooked outdoors over wood fires

As for the bread debate I went through a stage doing my own sourdough which was fun and interesting. But these days we buy the Aldi 'bake at home' sourdough baguettes for lunches. Alternatively Lidls sourdough freshly baked loaves. We have a Panasonic Bread machine which makes excellent bread of all sorts, great pizza dough and chelsea buns for a treat.

Al's sourdough

I can understand Brits living in Skandi making their own bread. I am not too fond of the bread products found there.

Al

[Jon in Sweden]

Apparently, Aldi, Asda, Sainsbury and Tesco do 50p sardines although there is often some price fluctuation. I like the variety you can get from those French specialist sardine shops. And, you cannot beat those Portuguese monster sardines usually cooked outdoors over wood fires

As for the bread debate I went through a stage doing my own sourdough which was fun and interesting. But these days we buy the Aldi 'bake at home' sourdough baguettes for lunches. Alternatively Lidls sourdough freshly baked loaves. We have a Panasonic Bread machine which makes excellent bread of all sorts, great pizza dough and chelsea buns for a treat.

1020344.jpg

I can understand Brits living in Skandi making their own bread. I am not too fond of the bread products found there.

Al

Sourdough is always lovely, but it's more effort than I am prepared to put into my (what sometimes feels like semi-industrial) bread making. I think my loaves give you 95% of the flavour for about 20% of the effort.

The Swedes just don't do decent bread in the supermarkets. It's overly sweet, processed and extremely expensive. With the volume of bread we eat as a family (over 300kg a year), we save £730/yr versus toast-quality supermarket bread and about £1200/year versus equivalent quality bread from a bakery. I think that's worth it for 20 minutes work a week.

And yep, 50p sardines are from any of the supermarkets. A great source of protein, calcium, vitamin D and omega 3.

[axel_knutt]

Cost is about 50-55p per loaf, but far better than anything we can buy locally, and 6 times cheaper.

Using the cheapest ingredients I can find at Tesco, I make it 127p with seeds, and 94p without, compared to 58p I'm buying ready made for. I remember now, that's why I decided not to bother when my interest was piqued by someone's talk of bread makers a while back.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /317417322
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /259108442
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /252528422
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /251975227
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /271072620

from where are sardines 50p a tin? sounds cheap.

The ones I get from Tesco are 60p, but they and most other sardines have been out of stock for months. I used to use Glenryck pilchards for years, but gave up on them after they switched to a foul tasting recipe.

[Jon in Sweden]

Cost is about 50-55p per loaf, but far better than anything we can buy locally, and 6 times cheaper.

Using the cheapest ingredients I can find at Tesco, I make it 127p with seeds, and 94p without, compared to 58p I'm buying ready made for. I remember now, that's why I decided not to bother when my interest was piqued by someone's talk of bread makers a while back.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /317417322
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /259108442
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /252528422
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /251975227
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /271072620

from where are sardines 50p a tin? sounds cheap.

The ones I get from Tesco are 60p, but they and most other sardines have been out of stock for months. I used to use Glenryck pilchards for years, but gave up on them after they switched to a foul tasting recipe.

I certainly respect the effort you've put into the research, and perhaps food inflation has increased the prices a little since last Easter when I was in the UK.

All the ingredients we use are markedly cheaper:

If memory serves, the wholemeal flour from Aldi/Lidl in the UK is around £1.19 per 1.5kg
Sachets of yeast were 6 for 60p

I just use normal white flour - there is no distinction here between strong flour or normal. It's about 50p/kg

Per batch, sugar is a penny or two, the posh salt is 25p, olive oil 15p. seeds £1 for 200g. 1kg rye flour is about 80 pence, 2kg white flour £1, 1.8kg wholemeal £1.45. Margerine for greasing tins 20p. Yeast £0.80. Total ingredients cost: £5.65.

1.5kWh to bake the bread in the oven (£0.30). Total cost to make 7.5kg bread in 8 loaves is £5.95, so £0.74p a loaf, so I was a little out. I could quite substantially reduce the cost though if I wanted to by using mainly white flour, normal salt and sunflower seed oil instead of olive oil. I could also reduce the seed count. I think the issue is I've gone all Nigella on my baking and made it a bit gastro!

But I think £0.74 for 940g of top notch bread is good value. £0.31 per 1000 kcal.

I think this (very interesting!) discussion is serving to reinforce my feeling that the UK has become a very expensive place to live. There are a few staples that we buy in bulk when we come over, but for the most part, food is a bit cheaper here, contrary to the popular perception that Sweden is expensive.

[mig]

Cost is about 50-55p per loaf, but far better than anything we can buy locally, and 6 times cheaper.

Using the cheapest ingredients I can find at Tesco, I make it 127p with seeds, and 94p without, compared to 58p I'm buying ready made for. I remember now, that's why I decided not to bother when my interest was piqued by someone's talk of bread makers a while back.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /317417322
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /259108442
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /252528422
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /251975227
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p ... /271072620

from where are sardines 50p a tin? sounds cheap.

The ones I get from Tesco are 60p, but they and most other sardines have been out of stock for months. I used to use Glenryck pilchards for years, but gave up on them after they switched to a foul tasting recipe.

60p in Morrisons this morning but only a few on the shelf alongside a large empty area. this is the overfishing thing i take it?

[al_yrpal]

I think the overfishing concerned Mackerel. Waitrose have stopped stocking it. A few years ago they were getting massive catches of Pilchards off Cornwall.

Anyway this thread is about vegetarianism...

Al

[Jon in Sweden]

I think the overfishing concerned Mackerel. Waitrose have stopped stocking it. A few years ago they were getting massive catches of Pilchards off Cornwall.

Anyway this thread is about vegetarianism...

Al

Very true - I'll swing it back on topic.

I was vegan for 8 years in my teens and twenties and I always found that Indian subcontinent and Middle Eastern shops were brilliant for stocking up on the staples. When we're in the UK, we always do a shop for spices and dried pulses, beans and sometimes rice and flour.

Similarly, Chinese supermarkets were superb too. Huge blocks of tofu for very little money as well as all the sauces, noodles and more unusual veg.

The standard British diet is very dull compared to many of these options.

[al_yrpal]

Dull? Erm .....I havent cracked Tofu yet? A bit like Paneer, both tasteless? They dont make you feel you should be looking forward to eating them. Whats the secret?

Al

[Paulatic]

Tried Tofu some 30 years ago and didn’t see the attraction.
In conversation with someone a few weeks ago and she told me Tofu has changed , it’s far better than it was 30 years ago.
OK I bought some, poured over recipes and ideas of how to use it. Tried it two different ways and….
The only good thing is it was made in Yorkshire but despite that I won’t be buying it again

[Jon in Sweden]

Tofu, unflavoured and by itself isn't especially appealing. I don't eat it unless I've flavoured it.

Assuming you're starting with plain tofu, cut it into cubes (maybe 1 or 2cm in size) and fry it in a pan with garlic (granules or fresh), smoked paprika and pepper. When it's quite well browned, add soy sauce and chilli to taste.

It's best to think of it not as a flavour in and of itself but as a flavour carrier.

I don't tend to eat so much tofu, rather I eat a lot of lentils and beans. My favourite way to eat tofu is in Thai curry, which my wife makes. I'm perfectly able to make it myself, but it's just become a meal that she makes.

Yesterday, I baked 8 loaves of bread and make 25 portions of chilli. 10 portions remained vegan and the 15 portions for me had a kilo of wild boar mince added to them. I take all my food to work with me and I'm away for 4-8 days at a time. It's nice not to have to cook at all whilst I'm staying away at the motel.

For lunch today, I made pizza from scratch - my younger daughter just wanted garlic bread, so she had that. My older daughter had a nice veggie pizza with tomatoes, black olives and spinach, as well as a garlic stuffed crust.

My wife and I had leftover chilli on our pizza - she's vegan, so no cheese (olive oil and nutritional yeast instead) and I had cheese. It was really good.

[MrsHJ]

Sunday afternoon cook up to Paris Nice

Dull? Erm .....I havent cracked Tofu yet? A bit like Paneer, both tasteless? They dont make you feel you should be looking forward to eating them. Whats the secret?

Al

I haven’t cracked it yet and I’ve not eaten meat in decades.

Personally I’d stick to stuff like: lentils (especially puy and green as red are more mushy), kidney beans, chick peas- all go very well with spices and can be the base for stuff like moussaka (lentils), “cottage pie” (chick peas but they offer far more than that), chili (beans).

Then there’s veggies, mushrooms, eggs, aubergine and any other pulses you like. All this lot combined are a good mix of protein substitutes (legumes) or textures (veggies). Eat plenty of seeds and nuts too. I love cheese but the protein rich, less fatty ones are probably the ones to go for so say feta and cottage cheese. The cottage cheese available these days actually tastes of something (don’t choose fat free- go for regular).

For lunch stuff like feta and walnut salad with leafy greens, beetroot, or whatever veggies you fancy (I switch in and out substitutes like carrot, apple or figs or peaches based on what’s available) and a side of seedy bread. A splash of balsamic and olive oil for dressing maybe.
For dinner I think I’m having kidney beans and veggie stew/chili tonight. I’ll use smoked paprika for the spice and have a jacket potato on the side. I tend to semi caramelise onions, garlic, aubergines and red peppers with the paprika before adding tinned toms, oregano, tomato puree and kidney beans and reducing it down. It’s better if it catches a little in the pan- add some more water to loosen the tasty brown bits.
I’m also making an aubergine parmigiana today for later in the week.

[rjb]

Here's my simple faux sourdough done in the bread machine. 150g bread flour. (Equal mix of white, wholemeal. ) 150g water and 70g sourdough starter. Mix in the bread tin and leave overnight in the airing cupboard to ferment. Add remaining ingredients in the morning and bake in the bread maker on the wholemeal setting.
300g white bread flour, salt,oil, sugar and 1/2 teaspoon of bread machine yeast. Sprig of rosemary cut up adds a subtle hint.

[axel_knutt]

60p in Morrisons this morning but only a few on the shelf alongside a large empty area. this is the overfishing thing i take it?

Dunno what's causing it, but I heard someone on the radio mention the difficulty in getting sardines, so I assume it's quite widespread. Both Tesco and Sainsburys seem to be selling Alva when they haven't got their own brand, but they aren't as good.

[Jon in Sweden]

The last few posts are making me hungry! I'm not long back from sauna and (alcohol free) beer after 80km on the bike, so I fancy beans on home-made bread toast.

As much as I like to cook fairly complex meals, there is little that beats a proper round of beans on toast.

I've ramped my training up to pre-season levels not that the snow has gone, so having burnt just shy of 14000kcal on the bike this week, the food hole in my stomach is starting to grow!