Can riding in the rain be not miserable? Also related safety questions for bad weather cycling

[axel_knutt]

The wettest my feet have ever been was on one warm sunny mid summer morning. I was walking through deep bracken that was left waterlogged by a storm during the night.

I didn't bother with overtrousers because I was wearing shorts, and it was only for a few yards anyway, so the water ran down my legs, and filled my boots. Full. After a couple of hundred yards of bracken, I took my boots off and just poured it all out. My boots still hadn't dried off by the time I went home four days later. A good pair of boots will keep your feet dry for a quick dip whilst fording a beck though, and even for quite a while walking on wet grass (unlike the 'waterproof' walking shoes I bought from Mountain Warehouse).

A lifetime of being outdoors in all weathers has taught me to take the word 'waterproof' with a pinch of salt. In the wet, I regard clothing as having the same function as a wetsuit, not as equipment for keeping me dry. It's only water, you won't dissolve.

Over trousers seem sensible to me too - and have certainly saved me from soaked trousers - but in practice (as opposed to theory) where do they drain to?

On foot, the bottoms of the trousers sit over the top of the boots and shed the water outside them, but on a bike the ankle cuff of shoes is much lower than on boots, and the trousers ride half way up your calf when your knees bend, so your feet still get wet.

[slowster]

We had a similar discussion a few years ago in the ’Does anyone still use a cape’ thread - viewtopic.php?t=147182.

I think that the practicality and suitability of a cape varies hugely depending on the user, the conditions, and the design of the cape.

As regards the user (and being very comfortable in a cape rather than miserable), I can do no better than suggest people watch some of Susanna Thornton’s videos, such as her latest one below.

As regards the conditions, I am another that would not want to use them in heavy traffic or in high winds. Outside of those conditions a cape can be far more pleasant and comfortable than waterproof jacket and trousers, and the longer the ride the more that is true.

Lastly, the design of the cape can make a huge difference to the experience of using one (just as a particular waterproof jacket may be much better than a seemingly similar jacket from another company). Not much attention gets paid to the design of a cape, probably because a) it seems such a simple garment with little scope for variation in the design, and b) the choice and ease of availability of capes is so limited (even more so to inspect and try on). I think the key design elements are:

- Fabric weight. I found the Rotrax PVC cape good for commuting and the weight resisted high winds lifting the cape, but it was much heavier than I would like for light touring rides. At the other extreme the Carradice Pro Route cape is a bit lighter than I would like.

- Size and cut. There is an optimal height for the hem of the cape: too low and it will get too much in the way/flap about, too high and it will not provide as much protection as it could to the legs. I find the Carradice Pro Route cape just that bit too short. With her cape, Susanna Thornton only needs to use a pair of cheap waterproof overshoes to keep her feet dry.

- Hood. In my opinion hood design is key and can make the difference between a cape that is very comfortable and one that is unpleasant (and even dangerous) to use. The hood needs to stay in place in windy conditions, still allow good visibility when looking over the shoulder, and have a large enough peak to protect the face from rain. I am not sure if any cape currently on the market fulfils those requirements adequately.

[pjclinch]

- Hood. In my opinion hood design is key and can make the difference between a cape that is very comfortable and one that is unpleasant (and even dangerous) to use. The hood needs to stay in place in windy conditions, still allow good visibility when looking over the shoulder, and have a large enough peak to protect the face from rain. I am not sure if any cape currently on the market fulfils those requirements adequately.

In my experience the only really good hoods tend to show up on jackets for serious winter mountaineering. Having said that, a less-good hood can be much improved with a peaked cap underneath, so you have a peak that will turn with your head independent of the hood.

Pete.

[Cowsham]

I took a cape with me on my excursion through Cheshire last week. Used it one of the days where it threatened to rain most of the day ( Sunday I think). It was quite cold so I was glad of the cape because I could put an extra layer on below the cape and not be too sweaty. It did rain a bit in places and the cape kept me dry. I think above 10 degrees I'd rather go with Lycra leggings with long sleeved shirt and just get wet -- I can change into dry clothes at the tent and wring out the Lycra.

[freiston]

I'm not sure why, but I've fallen out of love with the cape.

Despite Susanna's success in the video linked to by slowster above, my last experience using the cape on the Brompton was not good. The weather was cold, the rain was heavy and I had a very strong head wind; the cape blew in against my torso, my legs got wet, moisture (presumably rain) got onto my front and I got miserably cold.

On other occasions, I have got rather damp underneath - I had presumed this was sweat but in the other thread (also linked to by slowster - "Does anyone still use a cape"), iandusud mentions that his wife's Carradice Pro Route cape (same as what I have) has become porous. Also, the cape now smells a bit sweaty, despite washing it in the machine sans soap (I contacted Carradice about washing the cape and they said don't use anything except water).

I do think that, despite Susanna's success, a cape works better when the riding position is less upright and drop bars are used - and I tend to ride upright with big wide "alt bars" nowadays.

Another factor for me is that when I travel by bike, I also spend time out off the bike (shopping, walks from campsites to pubs, lunch breaks etc.) and for those occasions I would rather have a jacket.

Regarding keeping dry below the waist with a jacket, I have given up on waterproof overtrousers because I now struggle to get them on and off without somewhere to sit (and even then it can be struggle). I experimented with waterproof wrap-around skirts/kilts but, for me at least, this wasn't successful (saying that, I've yet to try one on the Brompton - and I still have high hopes for it working on a Brompton). So now I have purchased some "Rain Legs", which have yet to be tested.

Both with capes and with over-trousers, I have found Eager Spats and Decathlon "City Cycling Waterproof Overshoes 900" very effective at keeping the feet dry.

[pjclinch]

Looking in on today's Giro stage I'm getting the vibe that the peloton is broadly of the opinion that the answer to the question posed by this thread comes out at "not really"



Pete.

[axel_knutt]

I have given up on waterproof overtrousers because I now struggle to get them on and off without somewhere to sit (and even then it can be struggle).

I don't know what they sell for cyclists, but I always used my Spray Way walker's overtrousers, which are big enough to fit over walking boots whilst balancing on one leg in the middle of a windy moor. What you need is something that's good and baggy, with a large elasticated waist, zip gussets down the side of the lower legs, and velcro straps at the ankle. I'm a 34/36" waist but the O/T are 47" waist with the elastic at full stretch, and 25" round the ankles with the gusset unzipped.

They were plenty baggy enough to pull over the top of things like bumbags and map pockets as well.

[mattheus]

Looking in on today's Giro stage I'm getting the vibe that the peloton is broadly of the opinion that the answer to the question posed by this thread comes out at "not really"



Pete.

<snort>
The Giro habitually has some cold+wet weather. (read Paul Kimmage's book for a toe-curling example). There are lots of races in N-Europe even earlier in the year that often have as-bad weather. Paris-Nice is consistently bad (last year's was almost hilarious). So the benefit would seem to be there for teams to develop/test kit protocols for this kind of situation. There is precedent - the Castelli short sleeve waterproof (what was it's name???) was ubiqiutous for a few years in the peloton, and had a good reputation.

My pet theory is that it's too much trouble for the team cars to carry the extra stuff, and the riders are complicit in letting this happen due to a "manning-up" culture.

Plus let's remember they mostly race for 4h-or-less in these conditions, and they're putting out more watts than the typical cyclo-tourist.

[freiston]

I have given up on waterproof overtrousers because I now struggle to get them on and off without somewhere to sit (and even then it can be struggle).

I don't know what they sell for cyclists, but I always used my Spray Way walker's overtrousers, which are big enough to fit over walking boots whilst balancing on one leg in the middle of a windy moor. What you need is something that's good and baggy, with a large elasticated waist, zip gussets down the side of the lower legs, and velcro straps at the ankle. I'm a 34/36" waist but the O/T are 47" waist with the elastic at full stretch, and 25" round the ankles with the gusset unzipped.

They were plenty baggy enough to pull over the top of things like bumbags and map pockets as well.

I tried my Berghaus Deluge over-trousers because they have zips that go from the ankle almost to the waistband but for cycling, they're not good - the zips bend too much at the knee and the flap lifts - making for very wet under-trousers in heavy rain.

I then went to my large-for-me old Lowe Alpine over-trousers (which I had given up on for walking due to the shorter zips - only going up to the knee), but found these very difficult to get on and off too. Part of the problem is the mesh lining snagging on the footwear - which I have considered cutting out - but the bigger problem is me - in particular my belly which, as I get older, gets disproportionately bigger and gets in the way of me bending.

I still might cut the mesh lining out of the Lowe Alpine over-trousers and give them a go - but not until I have tried and tested the Rain Legs

[axel_knutt]

I still might cut the mesh lining out of the Lowe Alpine over-trousers and give them a go - but not until I have tried and tested the Rain Legs

There ought to be a law against mesh, it's a PITA. My overtrousers are single layer rip stop nylon, but I have a jacket with mesh pockets, and you can't get anything in and out of them without it snagging.

[rareposter]

I'm not sure why, but I've fallen out of love with the cape.

Capes are terrible. They act like a massive sail making them dangerous in wind, they obscure the bars (and therefore lights, computer, bar bag & map*), you need full mudguards otherwise you just get a cold spray directed straight up into the cape, they make bike handling and signalling tricky and you look like a dork.

*delete as applicable

It's one of the bits of cycling history that most people are thoroughly glad has been consigned to the dustbin and replaced by nice lightweight and well-cut fabrics.

[Bmblbzzz]

Josie Dew knew what capes are good for. It's why she wore one when traversing the Sahara.

[Ferrij]

Madison Defy The Elements (DFE) jacket and trousers work for me with Shimano MW5 boots. That said the max I tend to be out is about 2 hours not all day

[pjclinch]

I still might cut the mesh lining out of the Lowe Alpine over-trousers and give them a go

Go right ahead is my advice. I used to have a Lowe jacket where I was fed up with the mixed taffeta and mesh liner, took the scissors to the liner it and never really regretted it.

The main* point of mesh liners on coated or two-layer fabrics is typically to give a degree of protection to the waterproof layer, but it turns out that while that's useful it's also viable to accept a shorter working life and lose the extra weight, bulk and putting-on/taking-off faff that comes with the liner. The coatings on the likes of Triplepoint Ceramic waterproofs are actually reasonably stout, and Lowe later took to making their lighter waterproofs without liners (getting one of those prompted me to cut the liner out of my heavier mountain coat).

And especially if it's an old pair you're not using much otherwise there's not much to lose, and it may well make them more useful.

Pete.

* the main functional point... the other point is marketing: it turns out that lined waterproofs sell better at least in part because visible seam-taping makes unlined jackets appear "unfinished" to your your typical buyer. Form over function, in other words.

[pjclinch]

<snort>
The Giro habitually has some cold+wet weather. (read Paul Kimmage's book for a toe-curling example). There are lots of races in N-Europe even earlier in the year that often have as-bad weather. Paris-Nice is consistently bad (last year's was almost hilarious). So the benefit would seem to be there for teams to develop/test kit protocols for this kind of situation. There is precedent - the Castelli short sleeve waterproof (what was it's name???) was ubiqiutous for a few years in the peloton, and had a good reputation.

My pet theory is that it's too much trouble for the team cars to carry the extra stuff, and the riders are complicit in letting this happen due to a "manning-up" culture.

Plus let's remember they mostly race for 4h-or-less in these conditions, and they're putting out more watts than the typical cyclo-tourist.

On the one hand, yes to all that, but on the other, I don't think anyone's claiming these stages are anything other than miserable whatever they're wearing. "Doable" not the same as "happy to be there"...

Pete.