Bafang mid-drive conversion

[Cowsham]

We fitted the walk thumb throttle ( provided with his yose front hub kit ) so he could walk the bike up the steepest hills.

Great for getting up the very steepest of hills with a fully loaded ( with camping gear ) bike but also for getting up steps with a cycle wheel track attached to it.

[stodd]

As I've said before. the DoT have said they won't prosecute home conversions with a throttle if the motor otherwise complies with UK law regarding power and max. speed.

Surely the DoT are not the people who are going to prosecute? It would be the local police? It's good to see that letter anyway. It might persuade the police not to prosecute.

[UpWrong]

As I've said before. the DoT have said they won't prosecute home conversions with a throttle if the motor otherwise complies with UK law regarding power and max. speed.

Surely the DoT are not the people who are going to prosecute? It would be the local police? It's good to see that letter anyway. It might persuade the police not to prosecute.

The DfT statement could be used to argue a case if going to court. The DfT letter said:
"“In response to your email about converting a normal pedal cycle which has first been used on the public road as a pedal cycle, I am pleased to report that type approval does not apply – it only applies to new vehicles, not converted ones. Therefore if you convert a pedal cycle which has already been ridden on the road to “twist and go” operation, it does not become subject to type approval. As previously noted, the regulations will be directed at the manufacturers and so riders making conversions are not committing an offence. Manufacturers are permitted to sell kits of this nature but would need to ensure they are in line with regulations if sold as EAPC kits (EAPC power and speed limits).”
The pedelecs post is here, https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/dft-pedal-cy ... -approval/

More here, https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/thread ... gal.46481/

[bikes4two]

Whilst those links on the pedelec forum are very informative and unless I've missed it, are just comments about a DfT letter rather than a copy of the document itself.

It would be useful to see the actual letter (and be useful to have a hard copy) - anyone have a source of said letter please?

[Jdsk]

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/dft-pedal-cy ... -approval/

includes "The full response from the DfT".

Jonathan

[bikes4two]

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/dft-pedal-cy ... -approval/

includes "The full response from the DfT".

Jonathan

Yes, I saw that of course but that is just a forum posting about the letter, not the actual letter (unless I've missed something?).

[PLBM]

The web link below may be of interest to anyone thinking of getting a Bafang.
I tried one on our tandem and it wasn't nearly as responsive as the Japanese Sunstar torque sensor controlled system we used before it had to be replaced after 9 years. Sadly the Sunstar is no longer made, but there are other systems that do use torque sensor control. I've now removed the Bafang altogether as we live in a relatively flat area and no longer visit hilly areas on holiday. The Bafang gave us noticeably less exercise. See: http://www.ealingcycling.org.uk/2026/01 ... cling.html

[bikes4two]

.............. thinking of getting a Bafang.
I tried one on our tandem and it wasn't nearly as responsive as the Japanese Sunstar torque sensor controlled system ............. The Bafang gave us noticeably less exercise.

A lot of folks looking at the mid-drive offerings from Bafang (e.g. BBSxx range) and Tong Sheng (e.g. the TSDZ2/2b/8) are not aware of the difference in how they deliver power and affect the rider experience - the Bafang use cadence sensing (CS) and the Tong Sheng toque sensing (TS).

In its crudest form CS just energises the motor (to a set level as determned by the pedal assist level selected) once it detects that the cranks are rotating irrespective of rider effort. The rider can if they so desire, just 'twiddle' the pedals to get powered along.

TS on the other hand requires rider effort before the motor is energised and the amount of delivered power is in proportion to the rider's effort giving a much more natural feel to the 'e' experience.

I understand that like the Tong Sheng systems, the Bafang can be programmed using open source firmware (OSF) and this may mitigate the crudeness of the CS system - certainly the Bafang mid drives have many many satisfied fans.

I have TSDZ2 powered bikes and hub motor versions too using the 'torque simulation' KT controllers, but even then the hub motors don't quite have the same power delivery feel that TS does.

[Anthony-C]

Here is a typical answer found from searching

In the UK, using an e-bike throttle while pedalling is generally legal, provided the motor cuts out at 15.5 mph (25 km/h) and the motor power does not exceed 250W.

... the motor's rated power does not exceed 250W. It's important this big difference is understood in policing but the wrong phrasing keeps appearing in the media and causing baseless arguments.

[bikes4two]

... the motor's rated power does not exceed 250W. It's important this big difference is understood in policing but the wrong phrasing keeps appearing in the media and causing baseless arguments.
[/quote]

Yes, wrong phrasing indeed - here's a direct extract from BS-EN 15194 Para 1 -SCOPE third para:

This European Standard is intended to cover electrically power assisted bicycles of a type which have a
maximum continuous rated power of 0,25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the EPAC reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling.

- the key wording is 'maximum continuous' not just 'rated power'. ebike motors rated at 250w continuous will almost definitely reach at times peak powers well in excess of 250w and quite legally so.