The joy of three speed riding

[comfortablynumb]

A traditional 3sp SA bike could work very well in combination with a front hub motor. Has anyone here tried this?

I have this this setup on my Gocycle G4 albeit with a Nexus rather than SA hub. Really like it.
Steve.

[Carlton green]

The point has been briefly mentioned in this topic, that typically a bike with a SA 3sp will be a one which is highly practical and designed for easy use, with laid back geometries, longevity, sensible handlebars, perhaps an older style and highly effective bell, a chainguard and paint finish which is durable.

The sort of bike which will invariably work no matter how long it's been sandwiched behind others at the back of your storage space, or even if left out in all weathers if the chain is fully-enclosed. There's little chance of it attracting the eyes of thieves, even if left for days in a public place with the most minimal lock. These are qualities which are often overlooked, but possibly more important than we believe.

I’m suspecting that those bikes with fully enclosed chain-cases are easier peddling or faster too. How can that be? Well, their chains probably stay clean and don’t loose their oil whereas on other bikes it’s easy enough to forget to clean and oil your chain, and when you do get around to it it’s ‘noticeable’ what a difference a clean and well (sae 20 works for me) lubricated chain can make. Don’t ask me how I know .

[jimlews]

The point has been briefly mentioned in this topic, that typically a bike with a SA 3sp will be a one which is highly practical and designed for easy use, with laid back geometries, longevity, sensible handlebars, perhaps an older style and highly effective bell, a chainguard and paint finish which is durable.

The sort of bike which will invariably work no matter how long it's been sandwiched behind others at the back of your storage space, or even if left out in all weathers if the chain is fully-enclosed. There's little chance of it attracting the eyes of thieves, even if left for days in a public place with the most minimal lock. These are qualities which are often overlooked, but possibly more important than we believe.

I’m suspecting that those bikes with fully enclosed chain-cases are easier peddling or faster too. How can that be? Well, their chains probably stay clean and don’t loose their oil whereas on other bikes it’s easy enough to forget to clean and oil your chain, and when you do get around to it it’s ‘noticeable’ what a difference a clean and well (sae 20 works for me) lubricated chain can make. Don’t ask me how I know .

The first solo crossing of Iceland was by Horace Dhall riding (but mostly pushing, I suspect) a Raleigh cycle equipped with a three speed Sturmey Archer and full chain case. That was in 1933.

Horace's achievement has previously been mentioned on one of Carlton's posts.
However, the search facility on this site does not seem up to the job of finding it !

[Biospace]

The first solo crossing of Iceland was by Horace Dhall riding (but mostly pushing, I suspect) a Raleigh cycle equipped with a three speed Sturmey Archer and full chain case. That was in 1933.

Horace's achievement has previously been mentioned on one of Carlton's posts.
However, the search facility on this site does not seem up to the job of finding it !

About 1 mile in 5 was ridden, according to https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//fu ... 7.000.html

Here's CG's post, viewtopic.php?p=1684871#p1684871

[jimlews]

Thanks "Biospace" that's the one.

Horace Dall ( no aitch)
A remarkable man.

[SST]

Nostalgia. When I finally got the bike I wanted as a kid, it had a 3-speed SA hub. Then came the era of racing bikes with double chain rings, you name it. A few decades hence I bought a Brompton... 3-speed. After having ridden a 6-speed for some 20k, I remember the continuous shifting... left up, right up, left down, left up... And so I never questioned the decision for the simple 3-speed.

[jimlews]

Q. What could be better than a Sturmey Archer three speed ?
A. Two Sturmey Archer three speeds in the same hub.

I am of course, talking about the S5-2 five speed.
I acquired one ready installed in the rear end of a Dawes Galaxy that I bought from this forum ( thank you Bob).
It is quite delightful to use; those triggers are still the best gear changer that SA have ever produced and are in some ways better than modern derailleur indexing. The way they just snick into gear is wonderfully satisfying.
As others have, I've geared low - a 22T rear sprocket driven by a 36T chainwheel furnishes a nice range of ratios -
with a couple of 'climbing gears' for modest inclines and two reasonably 'high' gears for just tapping along on the
level. For descents, I'm quite happy to let gravity do the work. What's the hurry !

An update on the above:
The gear range is quite adequate and the gear shifting via the two
trigger shifters is precise. Was this the Worlds first index gearing ?
gear inches are:
66.3
56.0
44.2...Direct Drive
34.8
29.5
While I'll never win any races on it, I was never into that, anyway.
it's just a very pleasant experience.
Theoretically, a nice gear range for saddle bag touring.
Top is good for slight downhills or on the level with a following wind.
The 30" bottom gets me up moderate inclines. Freewheeling "above"
the 66.3" top gear felt a little frustrating until I reset my mind to sedate
rather than"aris in the air and go for it" mode. But I find that I'm normally
in the middle three gears most of the time, with the other two as optional.
It requires quite a different mindset calming and meditative. Mindful and
mechanically empathic.
.
But I know that it is a fragile mechanism, so I have to treat it gently.
No "honking", no stamping on the pedals; just a smooth power input
especially as these '70s alloy shells have a reputation for ALIEN like
emergence of the low gear pawls through the hub shell. And I can feel
them abrading the shell interior in first gear. With this set-up I'm content
to walk up the steeper hills. Yesterday evening as a finale to a 50+ mile ride
I ventured onto the rough-stuff; an unadopted ridge track with a broken
surface, potholes and rocks. But it was fine, especially with the sunset
flushing those furtherest, loftiest crags. Hammerhead it wasn't.
It will be interesting to see how long it lasts with considerate use.
I might have to fit a cycle computer to the bike, to record progress.
That would be a first for me.

[Carlton green]

The gear range is quite adequate and the gear shifting via the two
trigger shifters is precise. Was this the Worlds first index gearing ?
gear inches are:
66.3
56.0
44.2...Direct Drive
34.8
29.5
While I'll never win any races on it, I was never into that, anyway.
it's just a very pleasant experience.
Theoretically, a nice gear range for saddle bag touring.
Top is good for slight downhills or on the level with a following wind.
The 30" bottom gets me up moderate inclines. Freewheeling "above"
the 66.3" top gear felt a little frustrating until I reset my mind to sedate
rather than"aris in the air and go for it" mode. But I find that I'm normally
in the middle three gears most of the time, with the other two as optional.
It requires quite a different mindset calming and meditative. Mindful and
mechanically empathic.

Whilst I favour the simpler three in a can there’s a lot in the above for the discerning. I’ve certainly found that a change of mindset helps and that the gears most selected (at least by me now) centre around something lower than you’d expect (for me that’s 45”). For those rare times when three in a can doesn’t quite cut it I’ve a plan ‘b’, shared below.

The ratio range given by the five speed SA also used to be available via a wide ratio five speed freewheel (eg. 14-32), but unfortunately the widest ratio five speed block now available (at sensible money) is a 14 -28. If derailleur is your preferred transmission then accepting and working with a limited gearing range could still see you mindfully progressing over many miles. That’s my experience of using single chainwheel derailleur bikes - it might not be everybody’s now, but if you go back many decades it was - and I prefer their (single chainwheel) simplicity. It was also my experience that derailleur bikes - or rather their transmission - needed a lot of cleaning, general maintenance, and repair; hence the attraction of hub gears which have needed less of all of those costly and time consuming activities.

In case the shift to hub gears didn’t work out, and besides having some old wide ratio blocks in my store, I devised a plan ‘b’; as events have turned out the change has worked out well and I almost always use my AW geared bike instead of a derailleur one. The desire to maintain a wider gear ratio range and the demise of wide ratio five speed blocks pushed me to embrace some complexity; I’ve a swift(er) and capable double chainwheel bike (48/34 x 14-28) on which I mostly use the larger sprockets (20, 24, 28) and mostly don’t have need of the faster smaller ones (17,14). It’ll climb most hills, but I still walk the occasional one; via a smaller chainwheel it could be geared lower, but high chain tension tends to break things and make them wear. There’s always a time when walking makes sense and that sort of brings us back to accepting limitations - and embracing them to get the best from what you have.

I hope that Jim’s SA five speed continues to work for many miles and it’s just a pity that so many didn’t. Sach offered their P5 hub and mine was great (they refined the design to be the gear that SA should have made) but it sadly became obsolete when the company changed hands and gave up on five speed hub gears. Interestingly, when using the P5, I too spent most of my time in the middle three gears …

[rjb]

If you need more gears one could trial hybrid gearing. Here's one I'm working on.
2 sprockets from a cassette is straightforward, 3 is a luxury.

[Carlton green]

If you need more gears one could trial hybrid gearing. Here's one I'm working on.
2 sprockets from a cassette is straightforward, 3 is a luxury.

Hybrid gearing, it’s a well worn path but it’d be interesting to read about what you’ve done and are doing. Might you start a separate thread to go through it?

Somewhere I’ve got a Dacon converter gathering dust. At the time I didn’t get on with it for some reason but they were quite popular with others.

Embracing the limits of the simple three speed has worked well enough for me, but it is a mind shift and for some people accepting those limits isn’t really an acceptable option - at one time it wouldn’t have been for me.

[rjb]

Hybrid gearing with a 3 speed. It's been discussed previously. Here you go for starters.
viewtopic.php?t=161254#p1850193

[drossall]

My first adult bike was my father's Raleigh All-Steel Bicycle, which I sort of inherited/took over. I liked it and its 3-speed, although it had issues with its worn rod brakes that led to my first five speed, and indirectly to joining my first club and using derailleurs instead. I was sorry when it was lost to the family.

More recently I've ridden a (6-speed) Brompton for commuting. I'm rather glad to be back with 3-speeds for some riding. I think it's the variety rather than any issue of what is "best".

[Carlton green]

My first adult bike was my father's Raleigh All-Steel Bicycle, which I sort of inherited/took over. I liked it and its 3-speed, although it had issues with its worn rod brakes that led to my first five speed, and indirectly to joining my first club and using derailleurs instead. I was sorry when it was lost to the family.

More recently I've ridden a (6-speed) Brompton for commuting. I'm rather glad to be back with 3-speeds for some riding. I think it's the variety rather than any issue of what is "best".

imho the old Raleigh’s had something about them and ‘echo’s’ of practical utility that promotes a certain appeal; and then there’s the joy of having something once used by a loved but lost person.

In whatever part of life we’re in we’re forever and misguidedly searching for the ‘best’. A friend shared with me that ‘perfection is the enemy of good’ and I then realised that automatically searching for perfection - or ‘the very best’ - is daft (because good is almost always good enough). Once we stop looking for perfection, stop looking to satisfy wants, and (instead) we start looking at satisfying needs with what’s available to us then life gets better, and it gets better in so many ways. I so wish that I’d learnt that truth decades earlier.

Variety. Variety and experiences tend to be good and sometimes they also teach us to take pleasure in what we have.

In all honesty I can’t say that the three speed hub isn’t, in at least some aspects, eclipsed by some other transmission(s), and neither can I say that they’re for everyone and every use. On the other hand I can honestly say that: I have really enjoyed using my three speed hub gears, that a well set-up three speed hub (*) has satisfied my daily transportation needs, and that other people too can find - and there’s a lot of it - ‘the joy of three speed riding’.

* Edit. On previous posts I’ve written about what I consider a well set-up hub to be. For me it’s been important to carefully judge and select the overall gearing ratio such that the three gears fall within the range that I commonly use - none of the ratios are wasted or under-utilised and each has a use. To my mind if you can’t spin out of your top gear on the level then you’re over geared (have something in reserve for fatigue, modest headwinds, and slight gradients, etc.) and if you never have to walk a hill then you’re under-geared.

[mig]

as transmissions have become increasingly multi sprocketed i do sometimes wonder how many ratios people commonly use. i recognise that some riders are surrounded by lumpy terrain and will most likely use the lowest and highest ratios on most rides. i just wonder how many in between those two are used just fleetingly.

[jimlews]

as transmissions have become increasingly multi sprocketed i do sometimes wonder how many ratios people commonly use. i recognise that some riders are surrounded by lumpy terrain and will most likely use the lowest and highest ratios on most rides. i just wonder how many in between those two are used just fleetingly.

On my 3 x9 set-up, changing up, I find I usually miss one sprocket and land in the next one up. So 9 becomes effectively 7. That is whilst using the middle chainring. On the outer, (rarely used) chainring, it is the top (smallest three) sprockets that get used. Similarly with the granny employed up front it is usually the largest three sprockets on the cassette that get used before changing into the middle chainring again. So, my 27 speed is effectively 13speed.