SA 3 speed bikes?

[pjclinch]

Whilst it's an option for an older bike, how many of you either have or would buy a new bike with a 3 speed hub?

Why wouldn't you choose an Alfine 8 instead?

If all else is equal I'd get an A8, but all else may not be.

On a not-G Brompton you can only fit an Alfine with an aftermarket kit with a new back end because the Alfine is, I think, too wide. I know a 3 speed works fine on a Brom as I've had one for ~ 25 years, so whether I'd go for an 8 would depend on available cash. Right now, the 8 with the other goodies I'd like (Gates belt, hydro discs, I need a new front wheel and the SON in my current one isn't disc compatible so a new SON too, and new forks, plus it needs repainted) would dent my bank balance more than it'll take right now.

Pete.

[Nearholmer]

Barely anyone woukd choose 3sp.

As I keep pointing out, the first challenge in buying a new 3sp bike is finding one, which is because barely anyone wants one in preference to the alternatives on offer!

I don’t know what the cost difference between a 3sp and a 7sp or 8sp is at wholesale, but I’d wager that it is so tiny, and so swamped under other cost elements when making bikes and bringing them to market, that no sane bike supplier bothers with 3sp …… the tiny price advantage it might enable wouldn’t help convince people to buy the bike. “It’s a pound cheaper than that one, but you’ll be puffing and blowing when you ride back up the hill from the shops/station/wherever.” Isnt a good line in sales talk.

From what I can work out by looking at new, cheap bikes, ones just up the scale from Flagrant BSO, the cheapest viable option currently is 6sp derailleur. I was in CycleKing, the home of budget bikes, this morning (our local branch has a bottom-drawer stash of NOS parts that fit decades-old Raleighs) , and I couldn’t readily find a 3sp. Outside the shop they had a rather enticing display of trad-style ladies town bikes, basket on the front jobs, in multiple colours, and they seemed to be 6sp Tourney with twist-grip shifters (£299 a pop, reduced from a possibly fictional £450!).

[Carlton green]

A Brompton is a bit outside of my budget, but one never knows what the future might bring and keeping informed is a good idea. I’d thought that a 14T was the most that could fit on a Brompton (without catching on something) but you seem to have gone bigger, am I mistaken in that maximum size or is some special technique(s) employed?

The largest you can fit on the standard bikes is a 16T. Some can be pushed up to 18T without any modification. Beyond that, you're into significant customisation territory.

Thank you, I’d thought that the limit was lower.

Whilst it's an option for an older bike, how many of you either have or would buy a new bike with a 3 speed hub that was not a Brompton?

Why wouldn't you choose an Alfine 8 instead?

For me it would all depend on price and availability. I know that a well set-up SA AW can do what I want and that it can be fairly easily maintained by the owner using a ready supply of spare parts. The Alfine is doubtless a great gear but I’m not so sure of ease of service and spare parts support.

If I’d never used a SA AW much them a not much dearer Alfine would attract, but I suggest that each of those two hubs have their merits and neither is the obvious choice over the other.

[rogerzilla]

I don't like the modern greased hubs but an Alfine is heavier, more expensive, and probably less reliable.

[rareposter]

I don't like the modern greased hubs but an Alfine is heavier, more expensive, and probably less reliable.

Alfine 8 is regarded as one of the most reliable hub gears around. It's that sweet spot of enough range (310%), simple, reliable and practical without going to the much more expensive 11sp+ options.

[slowster]

I think the new 4 and 12 speed 16" wheel Bromptons have 135mm rear spacing, i.e. like the G Line. I think the 4 and 12 speed freehubs/drivers take sprockets with the Shimano HG spline pattern.

Previous 16" wheel Bromptons have a 111mm rear spacing. The 3 speed hubs are either BSR (Brompton Standard Range) which I think is similar to the AW, or BWR (Brompton Wide Range) which has 57% intervals and accepts two sprockets with the Shimano HG spline pattern (a three sprocket aftermarket conversion is possible).

With regard to pricing differentials on a complete bike, Gazelle's price for a bike with a 7 speed Shimano Nexus hub with roller brake is €100 more than the version with a 3 speed Shimano hub. The Tour Populair model, which is similar to a Pashley Sovereign, is available with an 8 speed Nexus hub and roller brakes or 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub with drum brakes - the price is the same for both models.

[Brucey]

.......With regard to pricing differentials on a complete bike, Gazelle's price for a bike with a 7 speed Shimano Nexus hub with roller brake is €100 more than the version with a 3 speed Shimano hub. The Tour Populair model, which is similar to a Pashley Sovereign, is available with an 8 speed Nexus hub and roller brakes or 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub with drum brakes - the price is the same for both models.

this speaks volumes about the brakes, IMHO

[MartinC]

......Why wouldn't you choose an Alfine 8 instead?

Because, the Alfine 8 has never worked for me:
- I hate the soggy feel feel of the roller clutches
- I found the gear gaps didn't suit me
- I found the 2 and 3 stage epicyclics a drag per se and combined inconveniently with the gear gaps
- Wheel removal not particularly easy
- they need a messy relube periodically
- they're heavy.

I've had many SA and SRAM 3 speeds, SA 5's, SRAM 7's, Nexus 7's, a Rohloff and an Alfine 8 which was a PITA and disposed of. 3 speed IGH's are incredibly useful but dreadfully old fashioned.

[Nearholmer]

For completeness, maybe we should include epicyclic geared cranksets, which I think is an idea that goes back to the days of the Ordinary; I think they originated before IGH.

I had a look at this one at a show https://www.g3ared.com/ and it is really rather neat, but the way the ratios work seems entirely optimised for use on an EAPC with hub motor. Pashley use it for that in their stealth-assistance, trad-looking bikes.

[rogerzilla]

The Schlumpf Mountain Drive is another modern one but needs a modified BB shell, as do most of them. They are exposed to the full torque* of the rider's legs, whereas hub gears are normally geared up somewhat - back to that SA 2:1 advisory ratio.

*about the same as a petrol V6 engine, so not insubstantial

[Carlton green]

For completeness, maybe we should included epicyclic geared cranksets, which I think is an idea that goes back to the days of the Ordinary; I think they originated before IGH.

I had a look at this one at a show https://www.g3ared.com/ and it is really rather neat, but the way the ratios work seems entirely optimised for use on an EAPC with hub motor. Pashley use it for that in their stealth-assistance, trad-looking bikes.

We don’t seem to see many of those cranksets and they’ll find it hard to compete against existing arrangements. Unless I’m mistaken the g3ared crank is £500 a go for something giving three ratios, that’s somewhat more expensive than a traditional three speed hub.

[Nearholmer]

The G3ared one fits straight onto an ordinary square taper crank axle iirc. I was really taken with the ingenuity and quality of it, and was all up for getting one to play with until I discovered the price!

TBH, they make no serious attempt to sell it direct to consumer, and I think their business is in selling them in large quantities at much lower unit prices to bike makers.

[rareposter]

The G3ared one fits straight onto an ordinary square taper crank axle iirc.

To be really pedantic, it requires its own BB but critically, said BB fits into any threaded frame, it's not like a Pinion or similar which is a completely purpose built frame specific to that gearbox. So yes, it's easy to retrofit to any "normal" bike although obviously as you say, the use case is geared towards hub motor utility bikes like the Pashley.

I think we must have been at the same show! I remember seeing it at Bespoked.

[Nearholmer]

I don’t think it actually does, I think it fits a standard one - I discussed it with the designer, but if I was to buy one, which I won’t, I’d double check.

Yes, I went to Bespoked on the Friday, and it was the first thing which really caught my eye. Luckily I got to discuss it with the guy at length before the show became so busy you couldn’t hear yourself think.

[Brucey]

there are no 3 stage epicyclics in an A8 hub. So whilst there are many reasons why you mightn't want an A8 hub, this cannot be one of them.