I think it is on the Sunday a: Because it allows people to get there from all over the country who would otherwise have to travel up on a Friday evening b: Because closing the roads on a Saturday has even more of a commercial effect on local businesses. c: It allows hotels etc to get two nights stay out of people. d: This really isn't about not being able to get to church, see other posts about how escorted buses & changes to service times solves the problem.
In addition. It was originally held in June & moved because of the tourist season: Moved to an earlier start time with a faster average speed to limit the road closure time. Sorry EF, but this is one of those cases where you have to accept that the level of opposition is nothing to do with the deatils of the event per se: These people are going to object whatever you do until they get their way. I doubt that realistic compromise is in their pyschology. Trying to come up iwith a realistic solution is probably a waste of time. See the post from 'prisoner' after the news on BikeRadar or the one from the woman who claims discrimination because she is white & Christain. These are deply ingrained prejudices we are talking about. They hate the whole idea of the event.
Etape Caledonia vandalised
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Romeo Whisky
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 2:39pm
- Location: East Lothian
Community Council Leader charged
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tay ... 059601.stm
"Man charged over bike race chaos
The race was halted while the road was cleared. Pic: Richard Thomas
A community council chairman has appeared in court in connection with the disruption of a major cycling event in Perthshire on Sunday.
Alex Grosset, 62, from Pitlochry, has been charged with culpably and recklessly depositing carpet tacks onto the road.
Hundreds of cyclists suffered punctures during the Etape Caledonia.
Mr Grosset, who appeared in private at Perth Sheriff Court, made no plea and has been released on bail. "
The fact that he appeared in private indicates that this is being treated as a solemn, rather than summary matter, which is great. Sheriff and Jury and far higher sentencing power. Charge seems to be "culpable and reckless endangerment". He could get about five years in the pokey, but he wont!
"Man charged over bike race chaos
The race was halted while the road was cleared. Pic: Richard Thomas
A community council chairman has appeared in court in connection with the disruption of a major cycling event in Perthshire on Sunday.
Alex Grosset, 62, from Pitlochry, has been charged with culpably and recklessly depositing carpet tacks onto the road.
Hundreds of cyclists suffered punctures during the Etape Caledonia.
Mr Grosset, who appeared in private at Perth Sheriff Court, made no plea and has been released on bail. "
The fact that he appeared in private indicates that this is being treated as a solemn, rather than summary matter, which is great. Sheriff and Jury and far higher sentencing power. Charge seems to be "culpable and reckless endangerment". He could get about five years in the pokey, but he wont!
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Romeo Whisky
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 2:39pm
- Location: East Lothian
Alex Grosset
Oh, bit more here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/scotland/ta ... 059601.stm
He has been a chairman of the Rannoch and Tummel Community Council and is also a church elder.
The single charge against him alleges that between 16 and 17 May he acted in a way which showed complete disregard for the safety of competitors and pedestrians.
He is alleged to have culpably and recklessly placed tacks on the road between Kinloch Rannoch and Tomphubil, and the B846 between Tomphubil and Aberfeldy.
The charge states that the road was being used for a closed road cycle event and that Mr Grosset's actions caused damage to bicycles, emergency service vehicles and other associated vehicles.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/scotland/ta ... 059601.stm
He has been a chairman of the Rannoch and Tummel Community Council and is also a church elder.
The single charge against him alleges that between 16 and 17 May he acted in a way which showed complete disregard for the safety of competitors and pedestrians.
He is alleged to have culpably and recklessly placed tacks on the road between Kinloch Rannoch and Tomphubil, and the B846 between Tomphubil and Aberfeldy.
The charge states that the road was being used for a closed road cycle event and that Mr Grosset's actions caused damage to bicycles, emergency service vehicles and other associated vehicles.
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
I'd like to know why there is no mention of offences under anti-terrorist legislation, and why this terrorist is out on bail when he is clearly a serious danger to the public.
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Romeo Whisky
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 2:39pm
- Location: East Lothian
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
I fear that he will be having a pretty torid time of it in his community between now and his trial. Better for him to be out facing his community than hiding in jail as a martyr.
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
Isle of Man TT races. An inconvenience but people get on with it. Having been out there for the practice week once most people loved it.
London Marathon, An inconvenience, but people get on with it. I actually live on this route and am blocked in for about 5 hours, but I know it's coming and deal with it. It's a bit like easter bank holiday when most shops are closed you deal with.
Hell even village fetes sometime block roads sometimes I doubt these people would be complaining about that. They need to grow up to be honest, not everything in life is covenant, not everything in life is just for them. You have to except that there are other people in the world with different interest than you and just sometimes someone else's pleasure may require a tiny bit of patients on your behalf.
London Marathon, An inconvenience, but people get on with it. I actually live on this route and am blocked in for about 5 hours, but I know it's coming and deal with it. It's a bit like easter bank holiday when most shops are closed you deal with.
Hell even village fetes sometime block roads sometimes I doubt these people would be complaining about that. They need to grow up to be honest, not everything in life is covenant, not everything in life is just for them. You have to except that there are other people in the world with different interest than you and just sometimes someone else's pleasure may require a tiny bit of patients on your behalf.
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eileithyia
- Posts: 8399
- Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 6:46pm
- Location: Horwich Which is Lancs :-)
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
Some interesting comments;
EF your idea of varying routes/time of year is interesting. Not sure how long the event is supposed to take, but do remember touring in the Grampians in October and we were affected by short daylight hours (frequently ended up cooking in the dark shortly after pitching camp at 7pm). We also had a few nasty frosts to contend with.
Not sure how many people would be affected by the church going thing but certainly it is a consideration, perhaps some good relations with the locals might help to vary church worship times that day, with the road closure after, the Rake hill climb is run on a closed road and cannot start until after church has finished. Or once the cyclist have started, lifting the road closure for a later service.
On the IOM they manage the TT closures (and the previously held cycling week). I guess it is a much longer term tradition, everyone accepts it and works around it from what I could gather from locals when I went to the cycle week, no doubt Manx Cat can shed more light on it.
The true fact is no one wants any sort of inconvienence in their life, it's the same with anything to do with the car, everyone expects to be able to go door to door, they do not even like parking at the other end of the car park and walking!
EF your idea of varying routes/time of year is interesting. Not sure how long the event is supposed to take, but do remember touring in the Grampians in October and we were affected by short daylight hours (frequently ended up cooking in the dark shortly after pitching camp at 7pm). We also had a few nasty frosts to contend with.
Not sure how many people would be affected by the church going thing but certainly it is a consideration, perhaps some good relations with the locals might help to vary church worship times that day, with the road closure after, the Rake hill climb is run on a closed road and cannot start until after church has finished. Or once the cyclist have started, lifting the road closure for a later service.
On the IOM they manage the TT closures (and the previously held cycling week). I guess it is a much longer term tradition, everyone accepts it and works around it from what I could gather from locals when I went to the cycle week, no doubt Manx Cat can shed more light on it.
The true fact is no one wants any sort of inconvienence in their life, it's the same with anything to do with the car, everyone expects to be able to go door to door, they do not even like parking at the other end of the car park and walking!
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
The main thing is-thank goodness no-one was seriously hurt -it could so easily have ended in a tragedy. I can't believe anyone could not have known that this act had the potential to cause very serious injury, or even death.
With speeds of 30-40 mph and modern high-pressure tyres, I shudder to think what could have happened. As it was, I gather the tacks even damaged motorbike tyres on the support bikes- one of them going out of control could have gone straight into a batch of cyclists, or pedestrians, or spectators..... there is no end to the possible consequences. And if even emergency vehicles were damaged, as I have heard they were, what if a rider had been injured in any other way? Or a local person had been taken ill and needed the emergency services?
With speeds of 30-40 mph and modern high-pressure tyres, I shudder to think what could have happened. As it was, I gather the tacks even damaged motorbike tyres on the support bikes- one of them going out of control could have gone straight into a batch of cyclists, or pedestrians, or spectators..... there is no end to the possible consequences. And if even emergency vehicles were damaged, as I have heard they were, what if a rider had been injured in any other way? Or a local person had been taken ill and needed the emergency services?
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freedomfighter
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
How do you know the locals don't like the event?
Last edited by freedomfighter on 20 May 2009, 8:36pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EdinburghFixed
- Posts: 2375
- Joined: 24 Jul 2008, 7:03pm
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
I'd like to be clear that I think the Etape, or the broad strokes of the Etape at least, are really excellent and something to be encouraged. In the broad scheme of things one morning (in fact, half a morning) is such a tiny amount that it makes the objections seem laughable.
However, I also think it's important that the event be seen to try and accommodate locals' concerns, however parochial they might seem. After all, it's not us who have to deal with the hassle and disruption that is caused, but we are reaping the benefit of that inconvenience for free (I understand businesses and residents are not compensated even if they can demonstrate a loss, which seems a bit rich when the event has 3500 entrants at £56 each)
As I say, I'll hopefully be a 2010 Etape-er (especially as I understand it's legal to race on a recumbent, since it's a sportive and not a race). I might do it on Marathon Pluses though
However, I also think it's important that the event be seen to try and accommodate locals' concerns, however parochial they might seem. After all, it's not us who have to deal with the hassle and disruption that is caused, but we are reaping the benefit of that inconvenience for free (I understand businesses and residents are not compensated even if they can demonstrate a loss, which seems a bit rich when the event has 3500 entrants at £56 each)
As I say, I'll hopefully be a 2010 Etape-er (especially as I understand it's legal to race on a recumbent, since it's a sportive and not a race). I might do it on Marathon Pluses though
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36778
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
It's easy to underestimate the strength of feeling about Sunday Observance in parts of the UK, especially now that we have shops and just about everything else going full bore on Sundays.
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
Plus all the evil atheists physically dragging good christians into the shops and forcing them to buy things 
Or not. Yet it's apparently OK for them to force their beliefs on everyone else by doing things like scattering tacks on the road, or preventing people of other or no religion using the shops on their holy day?
Hypocrites, the lot of them.
Or not. Yet it's apparently OK for them to force their beliefs on everyone else by doing things like scattering tacks on the road, or preventing people of other or no religion using the shops on their holy day?
Hypocrites, the lot of them.
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
Would it be considered acceptable to bring lots of visitors from all corners of the country to a pork pie eating contest or a beer-and-bacon festival in daylight hours during Ramadan in a park in a largely-Muslim area of, say Bradford or Oldham?
If not, why is it considered acceptable to hold a sporting event on the public roads on a Sunday in an area of the UK where Sabbath Observance is still an important part of the population's lifestyle?
Personally I think all religions are equally stupid, but that is no reason to treat their believers with contempt.
If not, why is it considered acceptable to hold a sporting event on the public roads on a Sunday in an area of the UK where Sabbath Observance is still an important part of the population's lifestyle?
Personally I think all religions are equally stupid, but that is no reason to treat their believers with contempt.
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rualexander
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Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
esseesee wrote:If not, why is it considered acceptable to hold a sporting event on the public roads on a Sunday in an area of the UK where Sabbath Observance is still an important part of the population's lifestyle?
This is Tayside we're talking about here not the Isle of Lewis! I doubt if a very high percentage of the local population are bothered about sabbath observance.
Re: Etape Caledonia vandalised
esseesee wrote:Would it be considered acceptable to bring lots of visitors from all corners of the country to a pork pie eating contest or a beer-and-bacon festival in daylight hours during Ramadan in a park in a largely-Muslim area of, say Bradford or Oldham?
I would have no problem whatsoever with that. As long as it's not actually inside a mosque then they have no reason to complain, again, noone is forcing them to take part, and they should respect OTHER people's beliefs enough to realise this.
P.S. I agree with rualalexander, being from Morayshire myself and having lived in tayside for many years, very few of teh population actually go to church.