Shouty angry driver held up by car boot queue

[Sares]

One disadvantage of taking the lane seems to be that certain drivers can get more aggressive. I got stuck going the opposite direction of a mile+ long queue for a car boot sale. It was a narrow, windy road, so that the only way a car could pass us at all was if we pulled right off (but then the verge was very narrow too), and we couldn't tell how far the queue still stretched. I had the luggage and my husband had our baby daughter in a child seat, and someone who couldn't get by yelled for us to get out of the middle of the *&^ road, then when my husband stopped and tried to explain that there was no room, driver squeezed past about 1' from baby seat and went off in a huff. The fact we were in the middle of the lane meant that the driver could very clearly see what we were doing 'wrong' though of course if we had been to the side he may have attempted to push through anyway.
What do you do when stuck opposing a queue of indeterminate length? We had been pulling over periodically to let cars by, but that was clearly not enough for this irritable man. Unfortunately, the queuing cars never opened up a gap that someone behind us could have pulled into to pass without squeezing us- everytime it looked like that might happen, the next car in line closed it up again.
And, what makes people so angry so early on a Sunday morning? Are they perpetually annoyed at the world and everything in it? This is my first experience of getting yelled at when I could actually tell what the yeller was saying, and I somehow find it disturbing it was with the baby.

[emergency_pants]

Some people just don't get it. They're not able to figure out how anyone would want to do anything different to how they do things. They don't understand anything outside their own bubble. It's like, say, a person who loves Jazz music so much that they can't understand how anyone can NOT like Jazz music. They don't understand that there are people going about their business, doing their own thing, in their own way.

In my limited experience, I find these sort of people are not worth reasoning with because they're ignorant and they don't understand the wider picture. Hence, any amount of persuasion or conversation won't change their perspective on the situation - especially in the short amount of time a roadside exchange is.

Best just left to stew in their own ignorance, blindly getting stressed and upset on their day off. I bet he was still equally angry at something else later while you were out enjoying yourself. I feel sorry for his kids

[random37]

^^what he said^^
You're bringing up a child who'll be a really interesting, well balanced adult, taking him out to do something. Just think what Mr Angry's poor kids have to put up with.

[glueman]

Last year I had the youngest in a child seat and was climbing a very steep minor road past parked cars and about to reach a junction when a woman in a 4 x 4 overtook with inches to spare either side at ridiculous speed, cut in just missing my front wheel, could only manage to stop half way out into the main road and sped away like a scalded cat.

Always expect the worst, some people have no empathy whatsoever for vulnerable road users - they really don't give a damn.

[661-Pete-oldversion]

I don't think you could have done anything different from what you did, in the circumstances and in the road you were in. And in my experience, the majority of drivers are cooperative and considerate: we all know the type you had to put up with, we meet him nearly every day, but hopefully he's the 'exception that proves the rule'. The decent ones, you don't notice them of course.

But I would certainly keep an eye open for a lay-by or driveway to duck into, if the opportunity arose. And if being followed by a patient and understanding driver, I might well gesture to the approaching passing place as if to say "don't-worry-I'll-let-you-pass-when-I-get-there" sort of thing. I do that sort of thing on the narrow single-track country lanes which abound in my neck of the woods. And to see the appreciative wave from the motorist whom I've just let through - well that's one of the good things of life...

As to these car boot sales, some of them are a real eyesore and a menace: there's one that frequently sets up in my area, in a peaceful rural setting at the foot of the South Downs outside Brighton. Clogs up the surrounding lanes for hours on a Sunday, causes a pall of exhaust fumes over all the area. Are such things regulated in any way? My wife says, that if they happen more than a certain number of times a year, they need Planning Permission.

[Deckie]

As a former farm worker I am well accustomed to abuse from impatient motorists! We had the rules regarding traffic spelled out to us in no uncertain language by a traffic police officer.

If you are in control of a vehicle travelling slower than the national limit for the road and a queue of traffic builds up behind you you should pull in at the first SAFE and LEGAL opportunity, i.e. not a junction, bus stop, or driveway. If you do not you are not driving with due care and attention to other road users.

If there are no safe and legal opportunities you carry on.

As for Car Boot Sales - they can hold 13 per year on a site without planning permission.

[[XAP]Bob]

I think I'd have stopped and discussed the issue with him*, but then I get a perverse kind of pleasure from watching people in a rush explain for a good 10 minutes why they should be doing 90mph in a town rather than just overtaking at the next reasonable opportunity. The time they are willing to "waste" is absolutely hilarious.

Now it looks like there wasn't a reasonable opportunity for a while here - how long was this queue, if it's a half mile then it's not that long, at 10mph it's 6min/mile, so only 3 minutes of slower motion for the car...

If it's 10 miles then people really need to get a life, or a bike

If the car has flashing blue lights then I'd stop on the side of the road for it to get past, but that's fairly rare...

Bob

* It helps that I'm not that small, and have arrogance/confidence which increases with crossness. Talking calmly winds them up no end

[NUKe]

A motorcycling friend of mine used to have a great technique to deal with impatient Motorists. If they were sat behind him at junction blowing there horn. As motorcyclists go Chris could best be described as pedestrian on his old AJS. He would give them a wave. put the bike on the centre stand walk back to the irate driver, "How are you long time no see" "How is the wife" " Haven’t seen your brother in a while." He would delay the chap for sometime with incessant babble. Even inviting them to come and see his latest windmill restoration. Eventually he would say to the bemused motorist. “Your not Bill are you, sorry my mistake, mustn't keep you any longer"

[MichaelM]

A motorcycling friend of mine used to have a great technique to deal with impatient Motorists. If they were sat behind him at junction blowing there horn. As motorcyclists go Chris could best be described as pedestrian on his old AJS. He would give them a wave. put the bike on the centre stand walk back to the irate driver, "How are you long time no see" "How is the wife" " Haven’t seen your brother in a while." He would delay the chap for sometime with incessant babble. Even inviting them to come and see his latest windmill restoration. Eventually he would say to the bemused motorist. “Your not Bill are you, sorry my mistake, mustn't keep you any longer"

Brilliant

[Sares]

As a former farm worker I am well accustomed to abuse from impatient motorists! We had the rules regarding traffic spelled out to us in no uncertain language by a traffic police officer.

If you are in control of a vehicle travelling slower than the national limit for the road and a queue of traffic builds up behind you you should pull in at the first SAFE and LEGAL opportunity, i.e. not a junction, bus stop, or driveway. If you do not you are not driving with due care and attention to other road users.

If there are no safe and legal opportunities you carry on.

As for Car Boot Sales - they can hold 13 per year on a site without planning permission.

If I'd been driving a tractor (which I actually have a fair bit of experience doing), there simply would have been no physically possible opportunities to pull over on that particular road. However, as a cyclist, I can and did pull up on the verge. There were no lay-bys or other places to properly pull off. It was safe for a car to pass slowly- there was just room. As this is legal, am I then required to do this every time a few vehicles build up? On a busy enough road this would make forward movement with the bicycle impossible and one would be stuck on the verge indefinitely.

As it was, a vehicle came up behind us about every 30 seconds, and since a bicycle (unlike a tractor) can pull over just about anywhere, then that does leave us with some interesting questions. What constitutes a queue? 3?? How long is it acceptable for another vehicle to be held up? With these expectations, no wonder shouty man was cross. He'd had to wait a whole minute for the queue-making third car (he was at the front). Granted the situation is unusual, but there are similar questions on any narrow road with heavy on-coming traffic.

I'm not sure they're completely analogous, though. With a tractor, it's often difficult to see past it, to tell whether it is safe to overtake. With a bicycle no such problem. What duties do we have to drivers stuck behind us?

[Swizz69]

I commuted to work this weekend on the bike.

Riding home Sat evening at 7.30 ish on dual carraigeway with loads of trafffic lights, the right hand lane was stood still with traffic. My lane being narrow meant taking the lane for 200 yards. I had it all to meself until a taxi approached with 30 yards to go, so I carried on. When space appeared for him to pass he did so closer than stictly necessary & blasted his horn.

Riding back into work the next morning I passed through a dodgy bit of road, a steady blind bend which narrows with tree cover right up the curb. The surface is poor & is just wide enough for a car & large vehicle to pass one another, and from experience they never slow down. So once again I took the lane, wider than usual to be visible. This worked a treat as halfway round, a blue Mazda RX8 approaching from behind slowed down smoothly and sat behind as I cleared the bend before moving back to my usual spot a yard from the curb. Nice one I thought, what a nice bloke. I was about to take my right hand from the bars & say cheers with a thumbs up. I noticed him passing a few inches from the handlebar before doing so thankfully, and also like the night before I got a blast of the horn to go with it.

Yep, 'Give them a cheery wave' is the correct thing to do. But unfortunately I just 'advised them on what to go & do' Neither had the bravery to pull over and be as brave as they thought they were though, but bullying a cyclist from within their motors wasn't that brave in the first place was it???

In your case Sares, the guy is even lower down the food chain, having a go at the pair of ya when you have a nipper in a child seat. Just believe in a bit of karma - what comes around goes around - as a rule of nature it rarely fails

[sirmy]

I had a similar but different experience the other week approaching a car boot sale. After crossing traffic lights we set of down narrow road. The first couple of hundred metres are straight and fairly wide so I set off slowly to allow the white van and cars behind me to pass. Only white van man won't pass. So I end up doing twenty odd mph (much faster than I like) along a road with a surface like a first world war battle field (Please Durham CC resurface Lord Byrons Walk). Any way there I was hurtling down this road and what does white van man do - waits til a near blind bed and goes past.

Words fail me sometimes.

[Cunobelin]

Only managed this once.

On way into work I cross a bridge that is narrow, about 300 yards with a high brow meaning you cannot see across it. As I had a trailer, it was too narrow to overtake. Idiot in Mondeo doing the "please get out of my way"and sounding his horn in the inimitable way ony a middle aged infertile rep can manage.

So, I assumed that as I was doing nothing wrong he was being nice and warning me there was something wrong, so I dismounted just short of the brow, checked trailer and took my time remounting to ensure traffic coming the other way, then moved on to pavement leaving him face to face on a single carriageway with 5 cars facing him.

He had to reverse all the way and wait for the lights again.

Then stood at the main gate with two armed MOD Police a few yards away and blew him a kiss..... he drove off.

Really enjoyed that one

[661-Pete-oldversion]

Cunobelin - you are an EVIL person - - but I take my hat off to you Sir! Excellent stuff!

Years and years and years ago (in the 1960s), I remember a one-off TV sitcom in the Comedy Playhouse series, titled Impasse, touching on a similar theme. One of the most side-splitting hilarious broadcasts I can remember. Anyone else (of my generation!) remember it? I don't suppose any surviving recordings are extant.

[Deckie]

If I'd been driving a tractor (which I actually have a fair bit of experience doing), there simply would have been no physically possible opportunities to pull over on that particular road. However, as a cyclist, I can and did pull up on the verge. There were no lay-bys or other places to properly pull off. It was safe for a car to pass slowly- there was just room. As this is legal, am I then required to do this every time a few vehicles build up? On a busy enough road this would make forward movement with the bicycle impossible and one would be stuck on the verge indefinitely.

As it was, a vehicle came up behind us about every 30 seconds, and since a bicycle (unlike a tractor) can pull over just about anywhere, then that does leave us with some interesting questions. What constitutes a queue? 3?? How long is it acceptable for another vehicle to be held up? With these expectations, no wonder shouty man was cross. He'd had to wait a whole minute for the queue-making third car (he was at the front). Granted the situation is unusual, but there are similar questions on any narrow road with heavy on-coming traffic.

I'm not sure they're completely analogous, though. With a tractor, it's often difficult to see past it, to tell whether it is safe to overtake. With a bicycle no such problem. What duties do we have to drivers stuck behind us?

The point I was trying to make is that you should not have to move over to allow people past UNLESS it is SAFE and LEGAL for you to do so. On a narrow lane with little or no verge, such an opportunity does not arise. I find I am quite aware of traffic building up behind me & sometimes I go a little quicker to get to a space where they can overtake & I always try to wave traffic past IF I feel it's safe. Often on a bike I can see further round a bend earlier than a driver & be able to indicate that it is clear.

I will also indicate in no uncertain terms if it is not safe to overtake me. This happened once when we were on the tanden going up a hill round some bends. An HGV tried to start an overtaking manouvre just as a transit van appeared round the corner coming towards us, He just managed to tuck back in without taking out our rear wheel... I was then able to wave him past only to see him turn off into a gate way 50 yard ahead of us...