Bike Locks

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
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Mick F
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby Mick F » 7 Apr 2010, 3:09pm

As I said, "Correct me if I'm wrong" ......... and I think [XAP]Bob has just done that! :oops:

Sheldon makes the point of his 1916 beloved frame. I wouldn't like to try it with my beloved bike and frame, but a test could prove it. It would be a wriggle and the frame may get scratched, but the way that photograph looks, it could be possible. The way I see it, if it is a beloved frame, why not make sure you lace the lock the best way?

Anyone want to try an experiment?
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby thirdcrank » 7 Apr 2010, 6:00pm

I don't know whether felons (who disappeared as a class in 1967) read SB. As a general point, anybody considering security should appreciate that thieves in general don't have bourgeois preconceptions and if something needs to be smashed to get at something else they will do if they have the means available and can use it without too geat a risk of being caught. When steering column locks were introduced circa 1970, everybody thought that would be the end of car theft. Tho foot of scaffold tube soon changed that. And if the security is virtually impregnable on something they really want, like a posh car, they'll wait for the owner to return and offer them violence instead.

saddlesore
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby saddlesore » 7 Apr 2010, 7:12pm

Beware of small combination locks at night if you have dynamo lights. A long cold wait for a passing smoker to light my digits.

And much as I do not wish to doubt the blessed Sheldon, his back is attached to a type of barrier made a version of 'Tube Clamp' or 'Kee Klamp', which can be disassembled easily with an 8mm hex key. City & Guilds Basic Bike Theft recommends aiming for the weakest link, not necessarily the lock.

belgiangoth
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby belgiangoth » 7 Apr 2010, 9:22pm

Mick F wrote:The way I see it, if it is a beloved frame, why not make sure you lace the lock the best way?

If the thief has the tools to cut through the wheel they will have the tools to cut through the lock - and it is less conspicuous to cut through a lock than a wheel.
If you lock the frame and an amateur thief tries to steal the bike they could damage the frame, whereas if it's only they wheel you have some re-tensioning, a new rim at most - so £30 max - not a new frame.
For a D-lock the the key is to fill in the space in the middle enough to stop a hydraulic jack from fitting in. If you have 622-28s locked to a bike stand you won't be able to fit anything in. Sheldon makes no pretences that a pro with an angle grinder will be stopped by your lock - but even the best locks (eg new york mini) will not manage 5 min with an angle grinder.
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

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Big John
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby Big John » 12 Apr 2010, 8:32am

A word of warning on following Sheldon's suggested approach: Kyptonite's mini U locks will not fit in the position he has suggested if you have either mudguards or deep section rims - I've just discovered this having bought a New York Fahgettaboudit mini-U lock (Parker International have these for excellent prices, by the way) for my new Croix de Fer.

I can still lock up through the rear triangle, taking in wheel spokes - but not the rim!

gilesjuk
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby gilesjuk » 12 Apr 2010, 9:34am

Mick F wrote:Good old Sheldon.
That link has this photograph and there's a caption that refers to his beloved frame.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way that this lock is shown, the wheel can be pulled out of the dropouts and left behind, whilst his beloved frame is half-inched.


I would imagine the bulk of the lock may prevent the wheel being removed from the frame? Depends if you can manipulate it enough to get the lock out of between the chainstays.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby [XAP]Bob » 12 Apr 2010, 10:13am

gilesjuk wrote:
Mick F wrote:Good old Sheldon.
That link has this photograph and there's a caption that refers to his beloved frame.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way that this lock is shown, the wheel can be pulled out of the dropouts and left behind, whilst his beloved frame is half-inched.


I would imagine the bulk of the lock may prevent the wheel being removed from the frame? Depends if you can manipulate it enough to get the lock out of between the chainstays.


The lock and wheel would need to go through the rear triangle...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

belgiangoth
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby belgiangoth » 12 Apr 2010, 12:17pm

Mick F wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way that this lock is shown, the wheel can be pulled out of the dropouts and left behind, whilst his beloved frame is half-inched.

Conceivably the wheel could be squashed into an oblong shape so that it could be fitted through the rear triangle, the hub would have to be rotated so that it would not catch in the rear triangle. Possible, but a lot of very conspicuous work. Easier to steal another bike or put on a hard hat and high vis and bring an angle grinder - which will get all bike locks however they are used and where ever a bike might be.
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

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Big John
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby Big John » 12 Apr 2010, 12:33pm

Depends I suppose on the thief's intentions. If we all accept that any lock is nothing more than a visual deterrent then Sheldon's method should be effective - the bike certainly isn't going to be rideable after removal - except that as I mentioned above it doesn't actually work anyway if you have more than a shallow section wheel to lock around!

If someone really wants your bike and they are appropriately equipped there isn't much you can do to keep it safe...

Alan D
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby Alan D » 12 Apr 2010, 1:05pm

There was a fairly lengthy article on bike locks in 'Cycle', about a year ago I think. I believe it was titled "gone in 47 seconds". A tame ex-con was used to test various locks, hence the title of the article. One of the things that came out of this was that a 'U' lock was not impregnable; you can get a bottle jack between the prongs and start pumping. This is why it was suggested that you either invest in an additional safety piece that fits between the prongs to fill the space and add some extra strength; or you position the lock so that you cannot reach inside it. Another piece of advise was to ensure that there is no slackness and that the lock (any type) did not rest upon the ground, or anything else solid, otherwise the thief had a resting point against which it could be hit with a hammer.

Chances are, most thiefs are casual opportunists. Put it somewhere in clear view to deny someone privacy. Put it where there are loads of other bikes, so that the thief will pass it by in favour of easier pickings. Lock it as well as you can. When my Girlfriend and I cycle into Oxford, we park against a good sound railing and then proceed to shackle them by weaving all 5 of our locks between the frames, the wheels and the railings. Sorted!

gilesjuk
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby gilesjuk » 12 Apr 2010, 1:39pm

Personally I think the most effective way to disable a bike is to take part of it with you. The part that is most effective to remove would be the handlebars, if you removed the pedals it could still be wheeled along. If you remove the bars it will be pretty hard to steer.

Of course the problem is having a quick release mechanism for the controls.

I guess a steering lock or a removable stem part might do it?

belgiangoth
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby belgiangoth » 12 Apr 2010, 9:38pm

If you remove parts of the bike, it makes it look scavenge-able and other people might join in.
In B'ham the best theft deterrent is to have a bike with no suspension, drop bars and a leather saddle (most bikes stolen are full-suss mountain bikes to sell for £20-50 in the pub or on the estates). If you live in London, where knowledgeable thieves steal to order you need to be sure your bike is de-stressed/dirty/chipped.
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

djnotts
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby djnotts » 12 Apr 2010, 9:59pm

I rather suspect that most thefts are opportunistic, especially outside (inner) urban areas and when of cheaper/less desirable bikes. Most such thieves will not want to caryy a bike away, so immobilisation with a small, but expensive, padlock always seems sensible to me (like disc locks on m'cycles). Plus chaining to something solid if you wish.

If it's a pro job - then near enough impossible to do more than make "yours" less easy than "theirs" if in company!

I once saw the remains of a well-locked up expensive hard tail - entire front end had simply been hacksawed off thro' top and down tubes for the forks and controls!

irc
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby irc » 13 Apr 2010, 12:05am

fatboy wrote:
Mick F wrote:Good old Sheldon.
That link has this photograph and there's a caption that refers to his beloved frame.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way that this lock is shown, the wheel can be pulled out of the dropouts and left behind, whilst his beloved frame is half-inched.

It would have been better to have arranged the lock so it went under the chain, or through and up between the chainstays.
locktechnique1.jpg


Quote from the man himself
"Some will object that felons might cut the rear rim and tire to remove the lock. Believe me, this just doesn't happen in the real world. First, this would be a lot of work to steal a frame without a useable rear wheel, the most expensive part of a bike, after the frame. Second, cutting the rear rim is much harder than you might think. Since the rim is under substantial compression due to the tension on the spokes, it would pinch a hacksaw blade tight as soon as it cut partway through. >Then there are the wire beads of the tire, also difficult to cut."


Sadly, even the Great Man wasn't always right. This locking method came up on CGOAB and someone tried hacksawing through a rear rim. -- 15 seconds.

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/bo ... 159020&v=m
No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?

rogerzilla
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Re: Bike Locks

Postby rogerzilla » 13 Apr 2010, 6:48am

Yeah, the technique is to cut a few spokes first, adjacent to where you want to cut the rim. It's still unlikely because the rear wheel is such an essential part of the bike for re-sale, and it's not cheap to procure another matching one.