Daytime lights on pedal cycles

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meic
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby meic » 31 Dec 2010, 7:35pm

Well it says the pedal reflectors must face front and rear.
To the best of my knowledge the pedal reflectors (if fitted) on a recumbent would face up and down.

Although I suppose the bike becomes legal if you take your feet of the pedals. :lol: :lol:
Yma o Hyd

thirdcrank
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby thirdcrank » 31 Dec 2010, 8:59pm

This is the legislation, rather than the guide:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989 ... le/20/made

3. Angles of visibility:
Such that the reflector on the leading edge of each pedal is plainly visible to the front and the reflector on the trailing edge of each pedal is plainly visible to the rear


OTOH, nothing is straightforward because the regulation which covers lights and reflectors not being obstructed, refers only to rear retro reflectors and not pedal retro reflectors which are dealt with under a separate schedule of their own, in the first link in this post, above.

Restrictions on the obscuration of certain obligatory lamps and reflectors
19. Every vehicle shall be so constructed that at least part of the apparent surface of any–

(a)front and rear position lamp,
(b)front and rear direction indicator, and
(c)rear retro reflector,
which is required by these Regulations to be fitted to a vehicle is visible when the vehicle is viewed from any point directly in front of or behind the lamp or reflector, as appropriate, when every door, tailgate, boot lid, engine cover, cab or other movable part of the vehicle is in a fixed open position.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989 ... on/19/made

They're coming to take me away, hah hah. They're... :shock:

aprildavy
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby aprildavy » 31 Dec 2010, 10:41pm

Yes, IMHO you're being picky!

The only case of exemption from regulations is for cycles when being used between sunrise and sunset, lights or reflectors are not required on cycles used at these times. However it is advisable to fit and use lights and reflectors if cycling in the daytime when visibility is poor, e.g. fog.

Should have read,

[i]However it is advisable to fit and use lights and reflectors if cycling in the daytime when visibility is poor, e.g. fog, however this advice only applies to those cyclists who wish to be seen in poor visibility by other road users.[/i]

recumbentpanda
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby recumbentpanda » 1 Jan 2011, 5:13pm

meic wrote:Well it says the pedal reflectors must face front and rear.
To the best of my knowledge the pedal reflectors (if fitted) on a recumbent would face up and down.

Although I suppose the bike becomes legal if you take your feet of the pedals. :lol: :lol:


Oh goody -an excuse to design and build another gadget for my bike: angled pedal reflector extensions . . .

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Mick F
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby Mick F » 1 Jan 2011, 5:44pm

........ is a recumbent a bicycle?
Does it have to conform?
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Jan 2011, 5:57pm

Mick F wrote:........ is a recumbent a bicycle? ...



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989 ... ion/3/made

This is the bit marked "interpretation." It includes:

“Pedal cycle” A vehicle which is not constructed or adapted to be propelled by mechanical power and which is equipped with pedals, including an electrically-assisted pedal cycle prescribed for the purposes of section 189 of the Act and section 140 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.


Having said that, our learned friends could never eke out a living were it not for the waggle room. The section begins
Unless the context otherwise requires...

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Phil_Lee
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby Phil_Lee » 1 Jan 2011, 8:31pm

And of course, "pedal cycle" may have a different meaning, depending on location and context.
In Cambridgeshire, for example, it ONLY includes solo bicycles, insofar as how the TROs regulating the use of cycle lanes can be applied.

I wonder if the lighting regulations have reached a sufficiently messy state where (if anyone was ever ticketed or summonsed concerning legality of lights) it could be a defence to show that even the DfT can't actually work out what the law is, and it is therefore completely unreasonable for anyone else to.
It is way beyond bizarre that I can have a set of lights that are completely adequate and which nobody could really claim to be unsuitable, except that if I fit them on one of my bikes they are legal, but if I fit them to the other, they are not!
It may be worth noting that if anyone does ever get ticketed/summonsed over suitability of lights which would have been legal on an older bike, don't mention the age of the bike, but when in court, ask the officer what steps (s)he took to ascertain the age of the cycle.
After all, If they don't have evidence of the age of the bike, they don't have evidence that any offence was committed.

fimm
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby fimm » 21 Jan 2011, 2:30pm

JonnyQ wrote:Does anyone here regularly ride a 100% legal bike at night?

I'm pretty sure my Brompton is legal - it came fitted with all the reflectors and as I run a single battery powered light front and rear, they don't have to conform to the regulations as I run them on flashing - is that right?
I also ride my road bike illegally in the dark - no reflectors (on the bike - plenty of lights on it, and reflective stuff on me...)
Of course it's a race...

snibgo
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby snibgo » 21 Jan 2011, 2:41pm

fimm wrote:... they don't have to conform to the regulations as I run them on flashing - is that right?

No.

If they are purely flashing (so can't be steady), but they are at least 4 candela and flash between 1and 4 times a second, then they qualify as "obligatory" lighting.

See http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... edalbi4556

snibgo
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby snibgo » 21 Jan 2011, 2:47pm

It is way beyond bizarre that I can have a set of lights that are completely adequate and which nobody could really claim to be unsuitable, except that if I fit them on one of my bikes they are legal, but if I fit them to the other, they are not!

But cars are in a similar position, with even more oddities. A garage was MOT-testing my aged Land Rover when they discovered the hazard warning lights didn't work. The tester told me this, and that this would be a fail, but a car that old didn't need hazards. So if the switch wasn't there, it would pass. I removed the switch, and it passed.

thirdcrank
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jan 2011, 3:47pm

snibgo wrote:... But cars are in a similar position, with even more oddities. ....


I think the difference with cars is that they normally conform when new so if you keep everything properly maintained, you will be compliant, or at least the car will*. When you buy a bike, it comes with reflectors - some of which will be compulsory at night, others are just for show. It may have no pedals and if so, no pedal reflectors. It is unlikely to come with lights so if you want to ride legally at night, you may find an LLb helpful. Once you have mastered the legalities, the fun begins when you try to by BS lamps. At one point, the packaging for nearly all bike lamps came with a disclaimer saying you should also fit lamps complying with the regulations.

I've never bothered looking it up, but I've had my doubts about cars like VW's which use the indicator stalk to switch on the sidelights down one side as parking lamps. AFAIK, a car parked on a road at night either needs all its sidelights on or none at all. I've also a suspicion that a four wheel vehicle can only have lamps in matched pairs. And before anybody mentions it. motor vehicle lights are an area where national govts can make their own rules, so unlike pedal cycles, foreign cars are only exempt if the drivers are here as visitors.

(What's that you say about getting out more? :wink: )

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby [XAP]Bob » 21 Jan 2011, 3:52pm

Four wheeled vehicles can have unmatched lights - many have only a single fog and reversing light.

Fog Light - that light which is turned on to test, and then forgotten about...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

fimm
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby fimm » 21 Jan 2011, 4:45pm

Oh, gosh, yes, I remember doing a reversing test in the dark with a friend in his 1974 Land Rover which didn't have a reversing light. (It had brake lights, but nothing for seeing where you were going). (We looked out of the window with our headtorches on...)

My Brompton lights could be steady if I so choose, so I fail on the legality.
Of course it's a race...

snibgo
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby snibgo » 21 Jan 2011, 5:21pm

I can't think of any consumer goods other than bikes that are commonly sold in unusable condition. And they are sold in that condition to make them legal. When we make them usable, we are liable to make them illegal.

Lewis Carroll would have been proud.

rower40
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Re: Daytime lights on pedal cycles

Postby rower40 » 22 Jan 2011, 12:36pm

thirdcrank wrote:I think the difference with cars is that they normally conform when new so if you keep everything properly maintained, you will be compliant, or at least the car will*.


If only.
Many BMWs, Volvos and Volkswagens have flashing tail and brake lights. Most people can't TELL that they're flashing, as they're usually at 100Hz, but some people are susceptible to high-frequency flicker.

The legislation stating that tail and brake lights must be "Steady" has no derogation to allow high-frequency flashing, and has been completely ignored by the manufacturers.
"Little Green Men Are Everywhere... ...But Mostly On Traffic Lights."