The Times campaign

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reohn2
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The Times campaign

Postby reohn2 » 23 Mar 2012, 11:11pm

How's it going?
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downfader
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby downfader » 24 Mar 2012, 9:21am

Like all previous cycle safety campaigns it seems to have gone quiet. This sort of thing will only be achieved if cyclists keep pressuring those in power and attempt to change public opinion via the papers, letters and in contact with their councils and MPs...

I suppose this is the reason the Green Peace movement of the early 90s went no where fast, and the one in the late 70s...? :?

reohn2
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby reohn2 » 24 Mar 2012, 10:06am

I am totally convinced that the only way cyclists will ever be recognised as equal roadusers to other traffic is by changes to the law and a judicial system thats willing to implement those laws(that is if they ever become law)and are willing to hand down serious penalties to drivers who are involved in collisions with vulnerable road users.
I'm also convinced that London holds the key to that happening in the rest of the country.
I'm also convinced that until the mass law breaking (particularly in cities) by cyclists is brought under control nothing will happen at all.
I'm also convinced that cyclists are seen as somekind of sub species,much as certain ethnic and minority groups are looked on by a significant and sickeningly prejudiced number of the population.

I also think that change will only come with serious civil disobedience by cyclists.

The Times is there to sell papers it is its only function.
MP's and the government only ever look at vote potential,they,on the whole,have no social conscience and care nought for the electorate.
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al_yrpal
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby al_yrpal » 24 Mar 2012, 12:01pm

Almost every day there is something in The Times related to the campaign, they are keeping it going. I got an email from my MP saying that he attended the cycling debate. I agree with you about the lawbreakers, unfortunately they are often not cyclists, just people on bicycles. Rearranging Britains city streets to accomodate cyclists safely would be horrendously expensive and impractical, it will never happen. I will stick to fitness cycling and touring well away from danger, I feel sorry for those law abiding cycle commuters, its a risky business and in Britain it always will be.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

hexhome
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby hexhome » 24 Mar 2012, 1:03pm

It is still current and having good effect politically. They have had a cycling related story almost daily.

reohn2
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby reohn2 » 24 Mar 2012, 2:00pm

al_yrpal wrote:.......... I agree with you about the lawbreakers, unfortunately they are often not cyclists, just people on bicycles.......

When are we going to put this anomally to bed? They are all cyclists some are law abiding some aren't,but all are cyclists.
....... Rearranging Britains city streets to accomodate cyclists safely would be horrendously expensive and impractical, it will never happen.
Al

It neeedn't happen,what needs to happen is drivers and cyclists sticking to the rules,with the threat of heavy penalties if they put themselves or others at risk of injury.
But its the drivers of motor vehicles mostly who need to realise the danger they pose to others with upwards of a ton of metal under their right foot.
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irc
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby irc » 24 Mar 2012, 4:52pm

reohn2 wrote:I'm also convinced that until the mass law breaking (particularly in cities) by cyclists is brought under control nothing will happen at all.
.

reohn2 wrote:I also think that change will only come with serious civil disobedience by cyclists.


I'm not sure these work together. As for mass law breaking by cyclists? I don't see it. There is a fair bit of red light jumping by cars and cyclists. Cars do it at 35mph just after the amber and are likely to cause a serious accident and injury to others if it goes wrong. Cyclists, usually, slow down and treat a red light as a give way. I see more cars than cyclists red lighting.

Speeding? On some, perhaps most roads the majority of cars are speeding. Obstructing footways? Again it's the cars. Illegal parking? The cars again. And so on.

What to do about things? As cyclists are more vulnerable than most road users to injury from bad driving I agree with better enforcement and higher penalties. I don't see it happening though.
No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?

reohn2
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby reohn2 » 24 Mar 2012, 5:47pm

irc wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I'm also convinced that until the mass law breaking (particularly in cities) by cyclists is brought under control nothing will happen at all.
.

reohn2 wrote:I also think that change will only come with serious civil disobedience by cyclists.


I'm not sure these work together.

By civil disobedience I meant protest.
Until the vast majority of cyclists abide by the rules and stop making excuses for breaking them we'll not make any progress,but its only to be expected in an increasingly lawless society.


As for mass law breaking by cyclists? I don't see it.

I do, especially in towns and cities.
There is a fair bit of red light jumping by cars and cyclists. Cars do it at 35mph just after the amber and are likely to cause a serious accident and injury to others if it goes wrong.

Agreed!
Cyclists, usually, slow down and treat a red light as a give way.

Yes but that still doesn't make it right, especially in the eyes of the none cycling public.
I see more cars than cyclists red lighting.

I see more cars on the road than cyclists so its hardly surprising.

Speeding? On some, perhaps most roads the majority of cars are speeding. Obstructing footways? Again it's the cars. Illegal parking? The cars again. And so on.

Agreed!

What to do about things? As cyclists are more vulnerable than most road users to injury from bad driving I agree with better enforcement and higher penalties. I don't see it happening though.

Agreed,hence the mention of mass civil protest,though I don't see that happening either :|
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downfader
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby downfader » 24 Mar 2012, 8:56pm

I saw one guy red light jump all last week when riding. :? Just one single jump of the lights...

However I can go through the Medina Road lights on green and be faced with a car from my left on Winchester road every other morning. Queensway.. drivers barrel through after its just changed every light change. Western Esplanade, same story. All of those have crossings where pedestrians will have to keep their wits about them.

Tempted to film these junctions this week :lol:

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby [XAP]Bob » 24 Mar 2012, 11:10pm

Counting junctions not cars - I'm surprised if at least one car doesn't jump the lights when they turn red, and often as they change back as well....

When a cyclist approaches a red light I'm surprised when they do break the lights, because it is actually unusual round here. I see a reasonable number of cyclists breaking one red before it goes back to green - its a junctionless narrow section, easily visible is the empty road and stopped oncoming traffic (not that that is an excuse)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

gilesjuk
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby gilesjuk » 25 Mar 2012, 11:55pm

We will get better protection and rights when we are forced to pay to be on the roads.

This private investment the government wants will be the start of it. Tolls fr all road users including cyclists.

downfader
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby downfader » 26 Mar 2012, 1:06am

gilesjuk wrote:We will get better protection and rights when we are forced to pay to be on the roads.

This private investment the government wants will be the start of it. Tolls fr all road users including cyclists.


It will kill us off.

We only account for 2-3% of all UK traffic. OK Cambridge, London and Bristol have close to 25% of all traffic down there but there are still many, many places where cyclists just will not ride. If tolls come in it will reinforce the views of many motorists that they pay for the roads. They're already jealous of the freedom of cycling.

And tolls will have other bad, bad effects on society. Hauliers who distribute our foods and products.. they'll simply avoid the toll roads and this will cause more conflict with cyclists in urban areas. And even if we're forced to pay extra we'll still be a "problem" by "slowing" down motorists or being "scofflaws on pavements" - we want things to get better? We have to keep re-emphasizing our rights, and keep repeating the truth about the numbers, the faults and the legal situation.

reohn2
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby reohn2 » 26 Mar 2012, 11:17am

downfader wrote:It will kill us off.

We only account for 2-3% of all UK traffic. OK Cambridge, London and Bristol have close to 25% of all traffic down there but there are still many, many places where cyclists just will not ride. If tolls come in it will reinforce the views of many motorists that they pay for the roads. They're already jealous of the freedom of cycling.

And tolls will have other bad, bad effects on society. Hauliers who distribute our foods and products.. they'll simply avoid the toll roads and this will cause more conflict with cyclists in urban areas. And even if we're forced to pay extra we'll still be a "problem" by "slowing" down motorists or being "scofflaws on pavements" - we want things to get better? We have to keep re-emphasizing our rights, and keep repeating the truth about the numbers, the faults and the legal situation.


+1
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thirdcrank
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Mar 2012, 2:08pm

I've feared all along that any form of graduated road pricing would lead to the sale of satnav programs to guide drivers onto the cheapest routes ie the quietest routes.

Mike Sales
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Re: The Times campaign

Postby Mike Sales » 26 Mar 2012, 2:55pm

thirdcrank wrote:I've feared all along that any form of graduated road pricing would lead to the sale of satnav programs to guide drivers onto the cheapest routes ie the quietest routes.


Yes. If the aim of road pricing is to cut congestion, the most efficient distibution of traffic would be every road full to its maximum.