First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

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Edwards
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby Edwards » 13 Apr 2012, 9:02am

horizon wrote:When someone says that they cannot do something without a car what they mean is that they have arranged their life such that everything is possible with a car


JohnW wrote:I really am with you horizon. The truth is very clear. People make their choice, but it's invalid of them to argue that they haven't got one. If cars were an absolute necessity


I did not want to get involved but I feel the need to comment on this.

I NEED A CAR.....

Without one I would be trapped in the house and unable to do a lot of the things the State requires of me nor attend medical treatment. it is very obvious to me that you are both lucky enough to be fit and healthy, why not just enjoy this.
Keith Edwards
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danfoto
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby danfoto » 13 Apr 2012, 9:08am

Edwards wrote:I NEED A CAR.....

Without one I would be trapped in the house and unable to do a lot of the things the State requires of me nor attend medical treatment. it is very obvious to me that you are both lucky enough to be fit and healthy, why not just enjoy this.


Which is of course absolutely fine! So do lots of other people in similar predicaments, and of course we all have a perfect right to live our lives as we wish or are able to, so far as They still allow us to. But surely you are in a minority?

When I first got my Kalkhoff pedelec, I was surprised by the number of people who would engage me in conversation about it. Very soon, it became apparent that there was a recurring theme. They would give up the car tomorrow if they could, but they "needed it".

I took to asking, in a light-hearted manner, why they needed their car, and I got a wide range of answers. Eventually it dawned on me that in many cases, listening to a motorist explaining why he "needs" his car has much in common with listening to a smoker explaining why he still smokes.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

kwackers
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby kwackers » 13 Apr 2012, 9:13am

danfoto wrote:Eventually it dawned on me that in many cases, listening to a motorist explaining why he "needs" his car has much in common with listening to a smoker explaining why he still smokes.

Exactly. Whilst not giving up I'm down from a 20k a year man to around 2k.

I doubt anyone is seriously suggesting nobody should have or use a car, just that perhaps a bit of thought about their journeys and using alternatives would help everyone, not least themselves.

Edwards
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby Edwards » 13 Apr 2012, 9:33am

I do not want to get drawn into this discussion but felt a need to address the specific points that I quoted.
I am not alone in having problems using public transport but i am also very fortunate to to be able to ride a bike some of the time.

Why not just celebrate the fact that we can take part in this activity and if somebody else decides that they do not want or need to run a car, then say good for them.
Keith Edwards
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meic
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby meic » 13 Apr 2012, 9:38am

Edwards wrote:I do not want to get drawn into this discussion but felt a need to address the specific points that I quoted.
I am not alone in having problems using public transport but i am also very fortunate to to be able to ride a bike some of the time.

Why not just celebrate the fact that we can take part in this activity and if somebody else decides that they do not want or need to run a car, then say good for them.


Because it has "costs" borne by the rest of the living world. If every (human) inhabitant of the planet was to try and join in the game we would be in the thick of it. That is just the rest of the present population not even considering past and future.

People who are pretending that this "crime" is victimless are deluding themselves.
Yma o Hyd

kwackers
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby kwackers » 13 Apr 2012, 9:43am

Edwards wrote:I do not want to get drawn into this discussion but felt a need to address the specific points that I quoted.
I am not alone in having problems using public transport but i am also very fortunate to to be able to ride a bike some of the time.

Why not just celebrate the fact that we can take part in this activity and if somebody else decides that they do not want or need to run a car, then say good for them.

The discussion isn't aimed at you Edwards, nor at any of the people who genuinely need cars but at those who use them indiscriminately.
What you have to bear in mind is that when you're priced off the road because demand for fuel has pushed the price beyond what you can bear is that it'll be because these very people insisted they "need" a car to drive a couple of miles to work or half a mile to the local shop.
A huge number of journeys done by car could quite easily be done by other means - and often more easily and with less stress.

So with that in mind here's an idea:
Imagine a world in which the idea of an able bodied person driving half a mile for a loaf of bread was seen as not just daft, but socially unacceptable. At a stroke we'd save fuel, improve the general population health, reduce road congestion and improve the lot of cyclists, pedestrians and other vulnerable users.
I reckon it's a good one.

Edwards
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby Edwards » 13 Apr 2012, 9:59am

kwackers wrote:The discussion isn't aimed at you Edwards, nor at any of the people who genuinely need cars but at those who use them indiscriminately.What you have to bear in mind is that when you're priced off the road because demand for fuel has pushed the price beyond what you can bear is that it'll be because these very people insisted they "need" a car to drive a couple of miles to work or half a mile to the local shop.A huge number of journeys done by car could quite easily be done by other means - and often more easily and with less stress.


I am not saying that it is, just making the point that the two statements do not reflect the society we live in. If you like trying to be the voice of a minority.
Keith Edwards
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kwackers
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby kwackers » 13 Apr 2012, 10:08am

Edwards wrote:I am not saying that it is, just making the point that the two statements do not reflect the society we live in. If you like trying to be the voice of a minority.

A growing minority. :wink:
Plus I'm a cyclist that also makes me a minority with no voice so I'm pretty much used to it.

So just to check Edwards:
You believe people should simply do what they like with no regard to anyone else or the long term implications and nobody has a right to try to apply any pressure for change.

Or:
Do you think that applying social pressures to behaviour that is bad for society in general is a good thing?

I'm presuming from your posts you think the first...

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CREPELLO
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby CREPELLO » 13 Apr 2012, 10:19am

reohn2 wrote:
Nettled Shin wrote:
JohnW wrote:OK then Al - you direct your exhaust pipe into your car and breath the poison yourself - don't inflict it upon others.


Huh? What's going on here, then? I hope you don't use any electricity from coal fired power stations. It would be pretty hard to not, but you might be off grid, and somehow consume no products with embodied coal energy. If you don't lead such an ascetic lifestyle, you are inflicting your particulates, toxic metals, and radioactivity on others, and contributing towards millions of deaths around the world. There are over 20000 premature deaths in the US each year alone through respiratory problems from particulates from coal fired power stations.


Or wear any man made fibres,use the train,or the toilet,or buy food from abroad,etc,etc.
Its all very well to point the finger because something doesn't suit our particular view of the world.
The car is largely responsible for making road transport one of the biggest polluters in the UK...
Long-term exposure to particulate pollution, largely from road traffic, is shortening the lives of as many as 200,000 every year, according to a government advisory committee.

from The Ecologist http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_r ... in_uk.html

I'm constantly aware of what my other activities induce on the environment and aim to understand and reduce their impact, mainly through buying less and better informed choices. But it's the car that has the most profound effect on social fabric and the environment. Energy inefficient housing is another biggy, but that's another conversation, probably a different forum even.

So all those other consumer choices matter, but if we could properly address transport issues in the UK, we'd be a long way towards a fairer, less consumer driven culture. The car is literally the biggest driver (sorry :roll: ) of this culture, because it affects so many of our choices. It also affects planning decisions and government policy in a wide range of policy areas such as NHS and schools for example. This is not a good situation to be in :( .

Edwards
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby Edwards » 13 Apr 2012, 10:43am

Kwackers
I was addressing the two specific points quoted from the point of some people not as fortunate as others, no more no less

Edit to add when I refered to taking part in this activity I was refering to cycling
Keith Edwards
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kwackers
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby kwackers » 13 Apr 2012, 10:46am

Edwards wrote:Kwackers please do not try to draw me into a silly discussion, so write whatever you want. You can presume what ever you like I am not bothered.

I was addressing the two specific points quoted from the point of some people not as fortunate as yourself and others, no more no less

I think you'll find you drew yourself in. If it's silly why comment? Why make the point that this is how society works if you're not prepared to defend it? :roll:

That very statement is in addition to your "two specific points" is it not?

Edwards
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby Edwards » 13 Apr 2012, 10:54am

Kwackers that was quick of you, notice I edited the post before you replied as I changed my mind.

The simple point I was trying to make is that some are not as fortunate as others and the two quotes did not reflect that.
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RickH
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby RickH » 13 Apr 2012, 11:25am

The choices about cars are not necessarily personal ones - sometimes it is more the choices that society in general makes & the consequent expectations, greater mobility by means of personal car use being one of them. Sometimes people are conditioned to simply ignore the alternatives that are available to them - it still surprises me the number of people who think cycling 5 miles is a really big deal.

And finally, in an attempt to lighten the mood a little...
moment's silence.jpg


Rick

Reigncloud
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby Reigncloud » 13 Apr 2012, 1:19pm

Many of the themes in this thread are quite nicely summed up here:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/ ... commuting/

Admittedly an American perspective, so probably starting from a 'lower' (more car-addicted) situation. Good hard lesson on benefits of giving up the car. He's also got a number of other posts along this theme as well if you care to browse.

My view: massive congrats to the OP and best of luck. I can see this becoming a bit like AA: 'HI my name's Bob and I've been car-free for five yars now...' :)

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Mick F
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Re: First day of NOT owning a car tomorrow

Postby Mick F » 13 Apr 2012, 1:46pm

We're not car free, and I see no point in trying to be.

If we lived in a city or large town, no doubt we could get about by public transport - do shopping etc. As we don't, and public transport (what there is of it) doesn't come along our road, we use a car. We NEED a car. We're not addicted to it, we actually and truthfully need a car!

We use the train to go to the Big City, we use a train to go on longer journeys too. We wouldn't even consider driving up the M6 again to visit Lancashire and relatives. Consequently, our car use is local now.

We drove to Exeter airport to take a flight out to Majorca last week, then drove home again after the holiday. 60miles each way and we had to be at the airport for 4.30am. We could have taken a taxi, but it would have cost nearly £100 to get us there, and we could have taken the train to get us home. Instead we used about 3gals of petrol and spent £50 to park the car.

No contest.
Mick F. Cornwall