Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

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grahamnicholls
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Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby grahamnicholls » 2 Jul 2012, 10:02pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxEquA2dVoU


Axa (Wooldridge's insurers) are claiming I swerved to avoid a drain, so are contesting liability.

I can't express in polite terms what I think of either company.

Be nice to get a good number of views, just so Wooldridge can be decently ashamed!

Thanks
Graham

hexhome
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby hexhome » 3 Jul 2012, 12:48am

1' 36" The lorry passed you far too close, plain and simple. There is no indication of a swerve, you appear to have moved out slightly at the start of the bus stop. The only evidence is that there is a drain there. Had he clipped you or was it just the shock?

As insurers, they would always contest liability unless it was totally clear cut. Can I assume that you did not involve the Police in what was an injury causing incident? You can be certain that the driver would have seen you fall but chose not to stop and face the music. He would never of course admit this. All HGV drivers are trained to check that any overtake (or even passing pedestrians on the pavement) has been completed safely. They fail the HGV (or PCV) test if they don't!

I would get a 'No win No fee' solicitor on the case. I'm not sure that posting videos helps you much.

orangebiker
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby orangebiker » 3 Jul 2012, 1:29am

Certainly doesn't look like you swerved at all. Not does it look like the lorry moved out at all. Surely the driver should be done for careless driving - the insurance is a separate matter. (think you were quite mad to overtake a moving lorry on the left earlier in the video - that's nothing to do with accident though!)

Edwards
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby Edwards » 3 Jul 2012, 7:20am

grahamnicholls wrote:Axa (Wooldridge's insurers) are claiming I swerved to avoid a drain, so are contesting liability.


Highway Code rule 213 tells overtaking drivers to give plenty of room in the circumstances described.
Rules 162-167 also cover this subject.

Advice see a solicitor and change the title of the vid or even remove from Youtube until this is sorted.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Jul 2012, 7:27am

It's not clear to me if you have consulted a solicitor. IMO dealing with an insurance company on a DIY basis is unlikely to be successful.

Check to see if you have any entitlement to legal assistance through membership of the CTC a trade union etc. Otherwise, there are plenty of law firms who specialise in personal injury claims by cyclists. Have a look at this:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49627

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Mick F
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby Mick F » 3 Jul 2012, 8:37am

Hi Graham,
Hope you are ok after the spill, it looked horrendous.

I watched the movie before reading your post or the rest of the thread. I thought I'd watch it with no pre-conceived ideas.

However, my instant thought as the lights changed to green, is that you weren't half getting a move on and a little too close to the kerb for that speed. You "undertook" the lorry and I winced as I watched you do it and could see what was going to happen to you. I would never undertake like that.

The lorry driver hadn't seen you approaching - it was self evident. Also, later as he overtook (and hit) you, he hadn't seen you then either. How far behind you was he after you undertook him? I wonder if he was even aware of the incident or presence. What happened next? Did he stop? Who picked you up? Were there any witnesses?

IMO, he was driving without due care and attention, but TBH, you didn't help yourself by riding like that.

Sorry that I have that opinion. I wasn't there, I can only go with what I saw on my screen.
Mick F. Cornwall

rualexander
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby rualexander » 3 Jul 2012, 8:54am

The cycle lane is far too narrow and at the speed you were going you should have been further out in the main part of the road, no way would I ride at that speed up the inside of traffic.
The lorry passed you too close though and even if you had swerved to avoid the drain, that is why traffic is meant to pass cyclists with plenty of room to spare.

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meic
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby meic » 3 Jul 2012, 9:43am

It strikes me that the insurance company is basing their contesting of the claim on the basis that a truck is entitled to pass a cycle as closely as they like and if the cyclist even wiggles a whisker it is not the truck's fault if they collide.
This would be something that a cycling organisation should fight as whole.

This Forum is not a formal part of the CTC. I think that you (Graham) should contact the CTC campaigns officer on this. He for one should know if or how this video could be used to good effect.
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Jul 2012, 10:00am

grahamnicholls wrote: ..., just so Wooldridge can be decently ashamed! ...


Just as a PS to my earlier post.

I cannot imagine they would give a monkey's what any number of cyclists might have to say. Even if something like your vid were to be featured on peak time telly, plenty of viewers would take the line that a cyclist shouldn't be on the road in the first place, so they might even benefit from a bit of free publicity.

All the insurer is trying to do is to minimise their payout and in the cheapest way. If you deal with them yourself, the only real likelihood of a quick payout is if they see it as a good way of avoiding paying more. It's quite likely that so far, you have not got past the first line of junior clerical staff firing off standard "go away and leave us alone" letters.

If you consult a firm of solicitors they will advise you on whether you have a decent case (in the sense of winnable) and then they will guide you through working out your loss ie the amount you are entitled to claim. Then they will negotiate on your behalf. If an insurance company gets correspondence from a firm of solicitors, at the very least they know they are dealing with a professional outfit and one whose charges will mount if time is wasted unreasonably.

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yakdiver
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby yakdiver » 3 Jul 2012, 10:24am

Good luck with your case, but IMO you cycle too fast in heavy traffic and too close to the kerb.
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horizon
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby horizon » 3 Jul 2012, 10:31am

rualexander wrote:The cycle lane is far too narrow and at the speed you were going you should have been further out in the main part of the road, no way would I ride at that speed up the inside of traffic.
The lorry passed you too close though and even if you had swerved to avoid the drain, that is why traffic is meant to pass cyclists with plenty of room to spare.


+1

I support the lorry driver (if no-one does then we absolve the local highway authority for creating a dangerous road layout).

Anyone who still believes that taking the primary position on the road is wrong should should hang their heads in shame and contribute to the costs and recompense of the OP. Furthermore, by making this into case of this OP versus this lorry driver, we are avoiding tackling what must surely be the criminal responsibility of the highway authority in designing a cycle lane* that encourages this kind of accident.



* Although the cycle lane had ended, the general thrust of the lane would have been to propel cyclists in to the faster traffic flows once it had ended (or diverted onto the pavement). The OP followed the line of the cycle path and road.

(I am inclined to suggest that there might even be Harold Shipman-type highway engineers around. While this is obviously tongue in cheek, it is a not an unreasonable interpretation that the cycle lane (as it is a conscious addition to the highway) is designed to cause accidents - it is only the fact that we know highway engineers to be sane, reasonable people that we don't jump to this conclusion. A full enquiry into this accident however would conclude that the cycle lane encouraged the risky behaviour on the part of the OP (and possibly the lorry driver) and was instrumental in causing the accident. The OP simply followed the intended path laid out.)
Last edited by horizon on 3 Jul 2012, 11:46am, edited 7 times in total.
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irc
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby irc » 3 Jul 2012, 10:49am

Lorry driver at fault, glad the OP wasn't seriously inured but ......

Using a mirror I would have seen that coming and swerved left into the layby avoiding the crash.

I wouldn't have been there in the first place though. No way would I undertake a moving lorry in a gap that size.

For much of that clip I'd be easing off taking primary and following a car in front. Avoiding either undertakes by me or close overtakes by traffic. At the point the truck was undertaken the road ahead was clear enough it could have been forseen the truck would be overtaking shortly. I'd have hung back.

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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby karlt » 3 Jul 2012, 10:57am

horizon wrote:
rualexander wrote:The cycle lane is far too narrow and at the speed you were going you should have been further out in the main part of the road, no way would I ride at that speed up the inside of traffic.
The lorry passed you too close though and even if you had swerved to avoid the drain, that is why traffic is meant to pass cyclists with plenty of room to spare.


+1

I support the lorry driver

Anyone who still believes that taking the primary position on the road is wrong should should hang their heads in shame and contribute to the costs and recompense of the OP. Furthermore, by making this into case of this OP versus this lorry driver, we are avoiding tackling what must surely be the criminal responsibility of the highway authority in designing a cycle lane* that encourages this kind of accident. If ever there was a doubt that there aren't any Harold Shipman-type highway engineers around, that doubt is surely extinguished now - how these evil monsters must be chortling as they view the outcome of their twisted minds.

* Although the cycle lane had ended, the general thrust of the lane would have been to propel cyclists in to the faster traffic flows once it had ended (or diverted onto the pavement). The OP followed the line of the cycle path and road and fell right into their trap.


Don't be silly. Highway engineers are not "evil monsters" intentionally trying to kill cyclists and taking delight in cyclist deaths; they are ignorant of how dangerous the recommended solutions are. This "they actually want to kill us" conspiracy nonsense makes us look like idiots.

Doing it in a forum like this could even be libel.

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horizon
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby horizon » 3 Jul 2012, 11:11am

karlt wrote:Don't be silly. Highway engineers are not "evil monsters" intentionally trying to kill cyclists and taking delight in cyclist deaths; they are ignorant of how dangerous the recommended solutions are. This "they actually want to kill us" conspiracy nonsense makes us look like idiots.



Quite right. But maybe suggesting that cycle lanes are often dangerous to the extent that it is hard to imagine any intelligent person constructing them in this way (let alone a skilled professional engineer) it will awaken highway engineers to the dangerous folly of their ways.

(I've amended my post in case anyone thinks that I actually believe that highway engineers deliberately design cycle ways this way. However I'm still trying to find a way of expressing the fact that the layout of this whole stretch of road would induce an accident without accusing the highway engineers of deliberately doing so. Most of the posts so far advise the OP to deal assertively and sensibly with what is an untenable road layout; I agree with this but it cannot be what was intended when the cycle lane was designed. By constructing an apparently helpful lane, the highway authority encourages what is obviously to us dangerous undertaking of the lorry by the OP and then a continuation of the same road position once the cycle lane had come to an end. Any unskilled cyclist using this facility would be lulled into a false sense of security when in fact they were heading for danger. The cycle lane is far worse than just useless. Furthermore it is obvious that the highway authority sanctioned cycling on this stretch of road but then leaves cyclists to their own devices further on. No wonder the video doesn't show any other cyclists using it.)
Last edited by horizon on 3 Jul 2012, 11:44am, edited 3 times in total.
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kwackers
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Re: Please look at the video of a Lorry knocking me off.

Postby kwackers » 3 Jul 2012, 11:34am

karlt wrote:Doing it in a forum like this could even be libel.

Eh? On what planet?