jezer wrote:Quite right, I was going to apply for the job, but as an atheist I fear I might not have made the shortlist
I'm far from convinced that most folk high up in the hierarchy of any religion are really religious, I suspect they simply know when they're onto a god thing.
Ahem ... here's a couple of snaps which I took a few years ago now in the sacristy of a Catholic church during a wedding service. The dude with the t-shirt and the sanctus bells is an altar boy/server type person ...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
The Pope. Vicar of Rome. Heir of St. Peter. The one whose decisions are infallible because he is personally advised by the Holy Spirit. Thats how the Pope was presented to the world during my formative years. I'm not one of the faithful - Does it show? But even I was shocked a couple of years ago when I discovered that the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility, which I had assumed to have been fundamental to Catholic theology since time immemorial was actually adopted by the College of Cardinals (I think) in the 1870s. I can think of a few other Heads of State who have assumed the same quality since then
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!
Well, wearing my amateur astro credentials, I'm bound to put up a picture of this man: as an exposer of early Catholic hypocrisy. But much has happened since his time...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
But even I was shocked a couple of years ago when I discovered that the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility, which I had assumed to have been fundamental to Catholic theology since time immemorial was actually adopted by the College of Cardinals (I think) in the 1870s.
You should also note that Papal Infallibility isn't what most people think it is. It does not mean that everything that the Pope says is right because he is the voice of God.
Si wrote:You should also note that Papal Infallibility isn't what most people think it is. It does not mean that everything that the Pope says is right because he is the voice of God.
Surely that can't be right? If you're the voice of God then how can what you say not be right? (Are we calling God a liar?)
Like most political and religious things, it's complicated and the answer is often so wrapped up in 'technical' terms as to be almost unintelligible to the uninitiated. Hence it's much easier to say ....
Si wrote:You should also note that Papal Infallibility isn't what most people think it is. It does not mean that everything that the Pope says is right because he is the voice of God.
..than to explain what it actually does mean
Though generally, IIRC, it means that the Pope is only infallible when basing his comments on the contents of the bible and when discussing religious matters. However, that is a gross simplification....and a more detailed investigation would show it to be wrong. Also, I believe that bishops/cardinals can also be infallible under specific circumstances.
BTW, it should be noted that I am not religious and so attempting to start an argument with me over such matters is a waste of time as I do not support the idea of Papal Infallibility. Also, please let us not run the risk of insulting those forum users who are religious by making tactless remarks about their beliefs.... As we have seen in the past, religious debate can often lead to fallings out. This is not to say that we shouldn't discus religion or question its principles etc, but that we should take care about how we communicate our views. I thank you.
Hi, Today "The moment the Pope bowed down to Robert Mugabe: Vatican defies EU travel ban on President of Zimbabwe and allows him to attend Francis' inaugural Mass and sit in VIP section - New Pope raised eyebrows when he shook hands and bowed his head in greeting to Zimbabwean leader"
Does this mean that Mugabe is a Catholic or that The pope is a politition...............
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Speaking as a lapsed Pagan married to a lapsed Catholic, my own view on the matter is that the charade is not confined to the church of Rome.
When we started out as wedding photographers, both The Lady Wife and I anticipated that it would be the Romans who would be generally up themselves and least inclined to allow us to get the photographs during the ceremony which our clients wanted. We were wrong. We soon found that in general, RC priests were all in favour of the couples having their pictures of the ceremony, whereas their CofE counterparts were dead against it.
During the course of the following 10 years, it became ever more apparent that the Romans were straightforward enough to deal with from our point of view, and apart from one miserable blighter in Hampstead, all in favour of the couple having the pictures they wanted during the ceremony. On the other hand, with very few exceptions (we can think of maybe four decent blokes), the CofE priests we tangled with were mean-spirited, duplicitous hypocrites much given to weasel words, and often pompous with it. More than a few were surprisingly confrontational, and several were barefaced liars.
All of which confirmed my long-held view that the late Mr Ghandi hit the nail fair square on the head when he said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
FWIW neither our clients nor ourselves ever had any problems whatsoever at Orthodox, Jewish, or Hindu weddings, apart from when one Hindu priest stopped mid-ceremony and ordered me to get closer still to the action because he was sure I wasn't getting the best shots.
We photographed over 400 wedding ceremonies before we had to retire, many of which were a charade on one level or another, and it was most unusual for us to see anybody with tears in their eyes during the ceremony apart from the odd weepy bride's mother. Only once did we see a majority of the guests trying hard not to blubber, and funnily enough that was during a Humanist wedding ...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
kwackers wrote:.............I'm far from convinced that most folk high up in the hierarchy of any religion are really religious, I suspect they simply know when they're onto a god thing............
They're religious alright kwackers, but what to? - I see a lot of utterences and actions which are certainly not Christian, it's been the same down the ages, and some religious leaders may be mislead, mistaken...........or simply creating a superstition in order to expand their own wealth and power.......read the gospels, see what Jesus says - I don't say that you'd be persuaded to change your mind or your beliefs, but you'd see that what so often happens in the name of "religion" is the opposite of what God wants for us.
JohnW wrote:They're religious alright kwackers, but what to? - I see a lot of utterences and actions which are certainly not Christian, it's been the same down the ages, and some religious leaders may be mislead, mistaken...........or simply creating a superstition in order to expand their own wealth and power.......read the gospels, see what Jesus says - I don't say that you'd be persuaded to change your mind or your beliefs, but you'd see that what so often happens in the name of "religion" is the opposite of what God wants for us.
Ghandi is quoted as once saying: “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”
JohnW wrote:They're religious alright kwackers, but what to? - I see a lot of utterences and actions which are certainly not Christian, it's been the same down the ages, and some religious leaders may be mislead, mistaken...........or simply creating a superstition in order to expand their own wealth and power.......read the gospels, see what Jesus says - I don't say that you'd be persuaded to change your mind or your beliefs, but you'd see that what so often happens in the name of "religion" is the opposite of what God wants for us.
Ghandi is quoted as once saying: “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
But even I was shocked 
a couple of years ago when I discovered that the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility, which I had assumed to have been fundamental to Catholic theology since time immemorial was actually adopted by the College of Cardinals (I think) in the 1870s.
