winter camping on tour

[hamster]

Mine is an earlier one from 1992 and has no tensioning strap!

[Barrenfluffit]

Mines later. It appears they tried.....

[Mattie]

Curiously the Vango Mirage seems to be similar but with the major problems addressed. Its also cheaper. No direct experience yet

I used one of these last year for a couple of trips away in the summer. Ventilation was OK, and freestanding. Also you can just tip it up and wipe any condensation out before packing it up. All went well.

The real problem only only became apparent this Easter. I turned up at a site in the sleet and pitched the thing on wet ground. The pitching was easy, got the thing together OK - but the groundsheet is wafer thin, like ordinary material, only a different colour.

It had little water resistance. Everything had to be put on top of plastic bags to keep stuff dry. So if they sell a footprint for it I would get one, as it will let you down if you pitch it on already wet ground. (That is why I am on the Forum looking at tents again ).

My Vango Mirage 200 - looks good though- just the groundsheet lets it down.



17.04.13
Edit: Ordered a Hilleberg Nammatj 2 to replace this tent (comes with a free footprint). No more tent buying now for a few years !

[bikepacker]

Now I'm looking at this .
http://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/ ... 3_sul.html.
now doesn't that look great and a great inner nest and reckoned to be much better that golight.
but yeah as always it's expensive, even i got £300 for my Akto i would still be struggling to buy this beauti.

If you are still thinking of a Golite Hex I am been told Windwoods have them in stock. http://www.winwood-outdoor.co.uk/acatal ... _Tent.html

The inner nest I have was made by Ooooworks. http://oookworks.com/oooknest_ripstop.html

If you sold your Akto you are well on the way to buying something that may suit you better.

[jags]

no idea what i'm doing to be totally honest.
i think i'll wait until i get a full report from you on how it preforms.
i'm seriously not going to sell my akto until i find out if the golight and inner works to perfection.

[Barrenfluffit]

Vango Mirage.... No direct experience yet

I used one of these last year for a couple of trips away in the summer. Ventilation was OK, and freestanding. Also you can just tip it up and wipe any condensation out before packing it up. All went well.

the groundsheet is wafer thin,...It had little water resistance. ...So if they sell a footprint for it I would get one, as it will let you down if you pitch it on already wet ground. (That is why I am on the Forum looking at tents again ).

Right a new tent or £2 worth of tarp No ulterior motive obviously!

Any thoughts on the unusual door arrangement? What's the exterior triangular flap actually for? Ok its got a pocket but otherwise it doesn't seem to do anything? Also is there a better side for entry/exit?

[Mattie]

Well, to answer your questions:

The triangular flap at the top means you can leave the zips partially open at the top and the triangular flap will provide cover to stop rain coming in - a bit of a ventilation option. Each side has its own zip that meet and end at the top - you cannot zip all the way round.
The higher front means it is a bit easier to crawl into without getting your back wet, in the rain. I also have a Terra Nova Laser Comp and my back always gets wet trying to crawl in and out of it in the rain.
I think the zip on the right hand side is a bit easier because of the shape of the door to the inner tent.

Against
1. The tent slopes quite a lot so you can only sit up straight at the front. This affects which way you sleep in the tent, so you are a bit more limited as your head has to be at the front really. Also the back of the tent becomes a bit of a hard to get to section - rarely visited !
2. As mentioned the floor is very thin and so cannot really be pitched onto wet ground as it is.
3. Inner tent door has only the option of small section of mesh, and not a full inner door of mesh option like some tents.

For
1. Good price.
2. Feels very robust and sturdy, confidence inspiring.
3. Easy to pitch - outer first, or inner and outer together, free standing.
4. Good ventilation
5. Appears to be well made.

It is nearly there, but not quite. The floor being thin and the inability to sit up straight at either end of the tent were the deal breakers - live and learn. Now to see if the Hilleberg Nammjt is any better !

[Barrenfluffit]

Many thanks. I've got the 3 man version and made up a footprint.

It amazes me how hard it seems to be to get a tent just right. Even fundamentally quite good designs seem to feature things which seem to be experimental rather than tested.

cheers

[simonineaston]

There's quite a good comparison of the Golite and Eureka tipi models, dated April this year, here:
http://www.blog.aventurenordique.com/tipi-eureka-wickiup-sul-vs-golite-shangri-la/
It is in French, so BretonBike will have no trouble reading it , but the weight chart is fairly easy to understand.

[hamster]

The whole problem with buying off the weight spec is that it encourages daft thin groundsheets!

My Jack Wolfskin Gossamer bivi/tent looks a bit heavy, but it's entirely explained by it having a good solid groundsheet. Check the denier rating of the floor - if it's below 150D it is likely to be a silly thin one, and you need to factor in the weight of a footprint.

[simonineaston]

The whole problem with buying off the weight spec is that it encourages daft thin groundsheets!

an interesting observation - and not necessarily one that I'd take issue with (one of my favourite tents is the venerable Vango Force Ten, which folks will know, has a comfortably heavy-duty groundsheet). I had a decco round a few tent maker's websites to see what sort of weights they use on groundsheets, when I found this interesting comment on the use of 70 denier groundsheets, on the website of a small bespoke UK tent-makers:
Denier describes the thickness of the yarn used to weave the fabric. A decade ago, 70d would have been the thinnest yarn considered for use in a groundsheet fabric. What has changed since then are not the properties of the yarn but our perceptions of how far we can push lighter-weight materials in real-world use. The 70d yarn used in crux groundsheets still adds up to a light-weight fabric, however, and is not “bombproof”. So if you know you’re going to be camping on moraine or rock, we recommend you take a footprint (see Tent Spares). Two fabric layers provide far more protection than a single heavy-duty (i.e. over 150d) groundsheet and give you the option of travelling even lighter without the footprint if you are camping on snow or alpine meadow.
The comment suggests that the use of light-weight yarns in groundsheets fabrics isn't necessarily a design flaw, although it undoubtedly offers the maker the opportunity to sell us a 'footprint', but more to do with giving the user more choice - take just the tent in the spring and summer to use on soft grass and benefit from light-weight, and then perhaps add the footprint (made of cosy closed cell foam in my case ) during winter.

[hamster]

I agree that it's not necessarily a design flaw - it is a conscious choice to sacrifice durability for an alleged weight saving. If you are always taking a footprint then it's no saving at all, and few of us cycle-camp on snow!
Even in grassy fields hidden sticks, stones and thorns rapidly lead to small punctures in the groundsheet.

What's right for me is not necessarily right for you, all I'm suggesting is a good understanding of the trade-offs and low weight seems to be over-valued. I've used a Wild Country Voyager with such a groundsheet for years - it's absolutely fine for most conditions and intelligent selection of a pitch (not in a hollow) goes a long way.

[Barrenfluffit]

Many thanks. I've got the 3 man version and made up a footprint.

It amazes me how hard it seems to be to get a tent just right. Even fundamentally quite good designs seem to feature things which seem to be experimental rather than tested.

cheers

Re Vango mirage 300.

Ok have spent a fair amount of time in it. Interior space is good and the freestanding thing is very welcome on crowded festival campsites. I now pitch with 5 pegs and ignore the flap unless the weather is particularly pressing. I've made up a groundsheet protector and find that it can be folded to fit under the compression straps of the tent bag.

The inner at the front can be unhooked and used to provide a small undercover drying space for a damp towel etc. its also possible to hang battery christmas lights in there and get a good spread of general lighting in the tent.

The door arrangement continues to vex; it really doesn't help. Its hard to open a wet door and keep the inner dry; likewise if you want to look out via a partially opened door.
The porch is quite small so switching the entry door means moving everything in the porch so this doesn't really happen. OTOH it was useful once when one side got the full sun or a specific wind direction.

Its a bit bulky tbh; and quite easy to point at things that could be changed for a lightweight version. The poles have bent a bit but I suspect someone fell on it. The pegs are rubbish and often bend.

Not sure I'd recommend a new one. Again not bad but a missed opportunity.

[kilroya]

What is overkill in terms of a winter bag?
For example is a RAB "Comfort Limit -5c to -10c" just about right or drop down to the next level of warmth, -10c to -20c.? Camping possibly at 200m. above sea level max. Irish climate.
Not talking about a foot of snow but maybe just below freezing.
Reckon the -5c to -10c is the one. Wearing thermals optional also. Should be OK?

[pjclinch]

What is overkill in terms of a winter bag?
For example is a RAB "Comfort Limit -5c to -10c" just about right or drop down to the next level of warmth, -10c to -20c.? Camping possibly at 200m. above sea level max. Irish climate.
Not talking about a foot of snow but maybe just below freezing.
Reckon the -5c to -10c is the one. Wearing thermals optional also. Should be OK?

Very much depends on the sleeper.
I used to own an ME Iceline bag, but in 7 years managed to spend 1 single night with the zip done up all the way. It was somewhere below -20C, my tent-mate was utterly frozen but I didn't even bother doing up the hood properly. Decided to sell it because it was too hot. Sold it to a friend who uses it with the zip done up all the way in summer. Another friend was interested, claiming it was the only bag she'd ever felt actually warm in, but decided she could manage with the 1000g filling Rab her dad donated to her (for summer, at sea level!).

I've used my ME Lightline is a snow cave where it must have hit lower than -10, and sleeping in clothes that was okay. But would the pals who liked the Iceline have found it okay? I very much doubt it! I'm not particularly cold-proof AFAICT.

So probably okay, but impossible to give more than a generalised "probably"...