Interesting new GPS

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hexhome
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Interesting new GPS

Postby hexhome » 3 Sep 2013, 7:39pm


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fossala
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby fossala » 3 Sep 2013, 7:49pm

Looks OK, wouldn't "upgrade/sidegrade" from my 800 for it though.

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fossala
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby fossala » 3 Sep 2013, 7:51pm

Shouldn't garmin provide "system upgrades" for existing users for the new features. Saying you have to buy a new product is pretty wasteful.

hexhome
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby hexhome » 3 Sep 2013, 7:56pm

I think that it is aimed at the touring/leisure market rather than the lycra lot :wink:

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fossala
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby fossala » 3 Sep 2013, 8:07pm

Most of my non-commuting riding is "adventure riding", I would love the feature for it to find routes for me. Would stop me having to use strava/biketoaster/ridewithgps.

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meic
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby meic » 3 Sep 2013, 8:07pm

This part of the touring/leisure market wants to stick to a GPS that takes a couple of AA batteries and doesnt have a built in battery that can not be changed.
Yma o Hyd

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jezer
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby jezer » 3 Sep 2013, 8:14pm

I'll stick to maps. I've had three sat navs fail in my car. I got a refund on the last one from Currys which gave up after two hours use. You can't risk that on an extended tour :cry:
Power to the pedals

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meic
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby meic » 3 Sep 2013, 8:24pm

You can't risk that on an extended tour


Why not?

I had my last GPS fail about 5 years ago on a tour, I completed the tour using maps, it was a pain having to do all that navigating instead of being able to just ride but I was no worse off than if I had started with the maps.

I dont think that maps could have survived many of the downpours that the GPS and I have ridden through.
The present GPS has failed me once, it wouldnt start at the beginning of an Audax. It turned out to be a battery fault, I had left the batteries at home. :oops: :lol: :lol:
Yma o Hyd

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fossala
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby fossala » 3 Sep 2013, 8:31pm

meic wrote:This part of the touring/leisure market wants to stick to a GPS that takes a couple of AA batteries and doesnt have a built in battery that can not be changed.

Dynamo!

OnYourRight
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby OnYourRight » 3 Sep 2013, 9:23pm

In my experience with these things, a paper map beats anything for planning a route, primarily because it simultaneously covers a large area and shows a lot of detail.

However, a mapping GPS with automatic route generation is very useful when you’re out and about, especially if you have a useless head for directions. I’m practically disabled when it comes to finding my way around. It takes me a week to learn where the bathroom is in a new home.

As such, I bought a Garmin eTrex 20 a couple of months ago – for its vaunted AA power supply – but it was so miserably bad* that I sent it back and replaced it with an Edge 800.

It therefore doesn’t surprise me that Garmin is now offering these new models with essentially Edge 800 hardware, included maps for all of Europe, and cheaper prices. Heigh-ho.



* Where to start? Ultra-low-res screen (176 × 220 pixels – an iPhone has about 20 × more pixels) with anaemic contrast. Joystick data entry. Unbelievably slow processor: it took over ten literal minutes to calculate a shortest-distance route out of Paris to a friend’s place less than 100 km away. Out-of-memory errors with 200 km routes (admittedly not necessary to calculate in one go). 1990s-era USB 1.1 connection. Shocking computer software, support website, etc. Good luck figuring out if you can view your purchased City Navigator maps on your computer using BaseCamp, MapConverter, MapSource, Trip and Waypoint Manager, or something else – assuming you’ve figured out how to buy City Navigator maps in the first place, a surprisingly complicated affair. City Navigator maps, by the way, are the ones you need to navigate outside of cities. Garmin has no real competition and it shows at every level.

The Edge 800 would fail spectacularly in any marketplace with the merest competition, but I’ve put up with it since it’s better than the eTrex 20 (for me) and there’s little else out there.

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Vantage
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby Vantage » 3 Sep 2013, 11:04pm

It does seem remarkably stupid of Garmin not to have designed this gps to use ordinary batteries which are available anywhere unlike the specialist lithium jobby that's in there. One reviewer on some site thinks that garmin opted for this to keep weight down (over 2 AA's?) and to keep it's low profile. For what? Aerodynamics? On a tourer? HA! Right.
One thing they are boasting about is the new units ability to route a circular course. Big deal. I can do that manually and where's the fun in planning a route if the gps does it for you? Pah!
I think a few of us would agree that while the etrex 20 and indeed other etrex models aren't perfect, they're not bad either. The screen while small shows more than enough detail for route planning and touring depending on your preferred zoom level and settings. Daylight viewing is an issue, but one that I more or less fixed with the use of an anti-reflective (basically matt finish) screen protector. Not an issue with paper maps admittedly.
Agree that the processor sucks but a workaround would be to let it plan several shorter courses/routes giving more flexibility to the tourer. City Navigator maps are utter crap for cyclists as they lack detail of cycle routes. VeloMaps (personally I hate them but others swear by them) OpenFietsmap, OpenStreetMap and a few others that I don't remember work so much better. Yep, usb 1.1 is a bit stoneage but I keep my maps on a class 10 micro sd card which also seems to help with speeding up the autorouting process.
I can't read a map to save my life and theres no way I could justify the cost of an 800, so the etrex it was and no regrets. :)
Bill


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sjs
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby sjs » 3 Sep 2013, 11:21pm

OnYourRight wrote:* Where to start? Ultra-low-res screen (176 × 220 pixels – an iPhone has about 20 × more pixels) with anaemic contrast. Joystick data entry. Unbelievably slow processor: it took over ten literal minutes to calculate a shortest-distance route out of Paris to a friend’s place less than 100 km away. Out-of-memory errors with 200 km routes (admittedly not necessary to calculate in one go). 1990s-era USB 1.1 connection. Shocking computer software, support website, etc. Good luck figuring out if you can view your purchased City Navigator maps on your computer using BaseCamp, MapConverter, MapSource, Trip and Waypoint Manager, or something else – assuming you’ve figured out how to buy City Navigator maps in the first place, a surprisingly complicated affair. City Navigator maps, by the way, are the ones you need to navigate outside of cities. Garmin has no real competition and it shows at every level.

The Edge 800 would fail spectacularly in any marketplace with the merest competition, but I’ve put up with it since it’s better than the eTrex 20 (for me) and there’s little else out there.


I agree. I've spent some time learning my way around an Oregon 450, and find it useful. But there's no denying the screen, the computer connection and Basecamp (among other things) leave a lot to be desired. Simply nowhere near as slick as a smartphone.

mrjemm
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby mrjemm » 3 Sep 2013, 11:22pm

At least with a map you're more likely to pull over and look at it properly, without weaving about the road and generally being a non-observant hazard.

Having said that, I use an etrex and like it, but it's a walking unit and only used for the basics on the bike, in conjunction with a map.

OnYourRight
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby OnYourRight » 4 Sep 2013, 8:44am

IrishBill76 wrote:It does seem remarkably stupid of Garmin not to have designed this gps to use ordinary batteries which are available anywhere unlike the specialist lithium jobby that's in there.

I think it’s a simple case of Garmin not having designed the hardware at all, this time around: the Edge Touring and Edge Touring Plus seem to be the same as the Edge 810, which was internally the same as the Edge 800.

There are a few features like the ANT+ radio that differentiate the hardware variations, but the real differences lie in the software, included maps, included accessories (e.g. heart-rate monitor), and especially the pricing strategy.

sjs wrote:I agree. I've spent some time learning my way around an Oregon 450, and find it useful. But there's no denying the screen, the computer connection and Basecamp (among other things) leave a lot to be desired. Simply nowhere near as slick as a smartphone.

And yet the Oregon 450 is one of the better choices, based on my research a couple of months ago, with a larger and higher resolution display, a much quicker processor, a touchscreen that works, etc.

In fairness to Garmin, both the eTrex 20 and the Edge 800 feel pretty good in the hand. The AA cells snap into the eTrex securely beneath a solid waterproof cover, and both devices feel tough and ergonomic. (The Edge 800 is much lighter, but that just makes it feel like it would bounce better.) The main trouble lies in Garmin’s diabolical software, both on the devices and in the supporting PC/Mac apps.

For example, I had to install an intrusive browser plugin (Garmin Communicator Plugin) merely to update the firmware. There’s no excuse for that kind of thing.

The Byzantine system of buying Garmin maps, getting them onto the device, using them on your PC/Mac for trip planning, and then using them on the device itself, is so fantastically complicated that I have to assume Garmin constructed it out of a bunch of different teams and corporate acquisitions, each of which was barred from telling the others what it was up to. It’s very, very close to unusable – and I can use most things.

The miracle of GPS keeps me coming back for more despite my frustration with Garmin.

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honesty
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Re: Interesting new GPS

Postby honesty » 4 Sep 2013, 9:29am

Que whatshisname talking about how good his unavailable, out of date, heavy, crap battery life motorbike specific Tom Tom is... ;)

Anyway, I have an 800. It has its flaws but I rather like using it and the OS maps I got it with are great and good for when I go walking as well. I usually route plan through the Garmin Connect website, but longer routes are planned on maps first spread out across the living room floor, because that's just more fun. I cant see the benefit the Garmin touring brings over the 800. I do think making it us AA batteries would have been a fantastic differentiator and a real alternative solution for the market. I can only think Garmin did not do this to stop it detracting from the walking GPS units that already do this.