Speeding...

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
DavidT
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Re: Speeding...

Postby DavidT » 21 Jan 2014, 8:43pm

Good video. Reminded me a bit of this offering from Gwent Police. (Albeit about texting rather than speeding)

Warning - it's rather graphic, but as I believe Gwent Police pointed out at the time, - it's what they have to deal with all too often and represents the reality of things going wrong - in a split second of inattention. On a lighter note I think a number of local drama students got their admirable efforts here on their CV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC3x7K3EOTk

There is a shorter version, and I'm sure there's also a longer version. The longer version follows the car from town (whilst showing that they are an otherwise decent set of youngsters and not maniacs), - and then also the aftermath with parents meeting in the hospital.

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Vantage
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Re: Speeding...

Postby Vantage » 21 Jan 2014, 9:38pm

Nicole Kidman said it best, "Control is an illusion, you infantile egomaniac. Nobody knows what's gonna happen next".
Call me a pessimist, but I believe every idiot who gets behind the wheel of a car, van or other such vehicle thinks they are infallible and I can't see that stupidity changing within my lifetime. Unfortunately.
Bill


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Postboxer
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Re: Speeding...

Postby Postboxer » 21 Jan 2014, 10:22pm

I think the test should be harder, a lot harder, with refresher's that aren't so hard, but check you still know all you need to know and can do it. Regular eye tests should be necessary too, perhaps to get insurance? The only problem with this is the same problem you have when making cars safer, people drive more dangerous, so maybe if the test was harder, some idiots would think that it's proof that they are supreme and drive even worse?

Pompey Monkey
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Re: Speeding...

Postby Pompey Monkey » 21 Jan 2014, 11:49pm

Postboxer wrote:I think the test should be harder, a lot harder, with refresher's that aren't so hard, but check you still know all you need to know and can do it. Regular eye tests should be necessary too, perhaps to get insurance? The only problem with this is the same problem you have when making cars safer, people drive more dangerous, so maybe if the test was harder, some idiots would think that it's proof that they are supreme and drive even worse?

Everyone makes mistakes:

Only the other day,on my commute, I found myself two yards short of a cross-junction, where I had to give way, travelling at about 15mph, before I realised what was going on. Luckily, there was no conflicting traffic!
The "reason"? : It was early in the morning with little traffic about and I was day-dreaming about something or other. I completely lost focus on what I was doing. It could so easily have been a nasty accident.

I pride myself with my usual focus on the road environment and associated awareness of it. I still ******-up that time but got lucky. I believe that this happens all the time to all drivers/cyclists/pedestrians.

All you can do to prevent the "hole in the Cheeses" aligning, is to ride/drive in a manner that allows for the inevitable lapse in concentration!

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squeaker
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Re: Speeding...

Postby squeaker » 22 Jan 2014, 11:51am

mjr wrote:... and it rather sucks that this was years ago and I can drive for the foreseeable without even so much as a basic check to see if my knowledge is up to date.
+1. Talking with a friend who drives a lot for work (a 'rep'): they have to go on courses every now and again plus have an annual check up drive. His company gains by reducing sickness (stress, time of work after accidents, lower insurance premiums etc.) but I suspect that it's the exception rather than the rule (especially amongst WVM). Very enlightening to get a lift with him :)
"42"

AlaninWales
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Re: Speeding...

Postby AlaninWales » 23 Jan 2014, 1:09pm

Given that .gov.uk do not require retesting (and nor do most employers despite many of us driving for work purposes), I would encourage anyone to work at improving their own standards. There are several options available, but these are an excellent start:

http://www.iam.org
http://www.rospa.com/drivertraining/

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jezer
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Re: Speeding...

Postby jezer » 23 Jan 2014, 1:44pm

I am retired, although I do voluntary work for my local hospice and also exam supervision at a local school. We have to undergo regular police checks every two years to ensure we are not a risk to the public. Shouldn't drivers be accountable in a similar way :?
Power to the pedals

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mjr
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Re: Speeding...

Postby mjr » 23 Jan 2014, 2:01pm

AlaninWales wrote:There are several options available, but these are an excellent start:
http://www.iam.org
http://www.rospa.com/drivertraining/

Excellent? IAM want us off the road (sorry "support segregated infrastructure") and in helmets, while RoSPA only "does not believe that it is practical to make the use of cycle helmets mandatory because voluntary wearing rates are too low" - sorry, but I'm not going to choose to pay organisations that attack on my cycling, no matter how good their driving courses are (and their bad cycling policies make me doubt how good).
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AlaninWales
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Re: Speeding...

Postby AlaninWales » 23 Jan 2014, 3:33pm

mjr wrote:
AlaninWales wrote:There are several options available, but these are an excellent start:
http://www.iam.org
http://www.rospa.com/drivertraining/

Excellent? IAM want us off the road (sorry "support segregated infrastructure") and in helmets, while RoSPA only "does not believe that it is practical to make the use of cycle helmets mandatory because voluntary wearing rates are too low" - sorry, but I'm not going to choose to pay organisations that attack on my cycling, no matter how good their driving courses are (and their bad cycling policies make me doubt how good).

Well, while back on the IAM forum I had to explain to a member why cyclists are no longer taught to get out of the way of cars, waiting for all the cars to pass before overtaking a stationary car :roll: , but I think I convinced him (and several others came to my assistance :D ). I think their (and RoSPA's) cycling awareness is on a par with the rest of the UK populations. They do however teach drivers to read the road for hazards and whilst 'progress' is required, it comes secondary (at least in theory) to Safety. The result is (or should be) more awareness of the other users of the road environment and an improved standard over DSA. You already pay organisations that attack cycling, in that you pay UK taxes (presumably); waiting for the world to be perfect won't make you any safer a driver, whilst getting an independant eye on what you actually do just might.

Of course, if you are a perfect driver anyway (as most UK drivers think they are), none of that applies.

Tonyf33
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Re: Speeding...

Postby Tonyf33 » 24 Jan 2014, 5:52am

but therin lies the problem, whilst the methods used within IAM (one of the supposed highest levels of motoring standards/organisations) make for better than average driving some of the time, the actual mesage, understanding and inclusion of the rights of people on bicycles on the road, the reasoning behind road positioning/use of 'cyclecraft' (I use that word as an adjective not in reference to any writings) and any other safety aspect regarding bicycle riders is just not there in a way that makes so called advanced drivers understand completely.
So many still think they know better and will not entertain reason behind what is actual logic and in many instances form part of the understanding of advanced motoring, primarily because they don't think the same applies to bicycles..sad but true.

Until we include a proper module at the very basic learning/testing level and give full explanations as to why cyclists do this, that and the other and to not follow the rules surrounding vulnerable road users is anti social at best and a criminal offence at worst then we have zero chance of modifying motorvehicle driving attitudes. This also needs the police, CPS and courts all to be on the same page to and ensure crimes against cyclists are punished corrrectly and in a way that sends out a message it isn't okay to bully, endanger, injure or kill..I'm not holding my breath however :twisted:

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Re: Speeding...

Postby Vorpal » 24 Jan 2014, 6:52am

At my previous employer, I tried to get them to offer advanced driving courses and periodic awareness type refresher courses to everyone who had a company car. I put together a business case that showed it would save money on reduced insurance. They told me I was wasting my time. :roll:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

DavidT
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Re: Speeding...

Postby DavidT » 24 Jan 2014, 3:54pm

Vorpal wrote:At my previous employer, I tried to get them to offer advanced driving courses and periodic awareness type refresher courses to everyone who had a company car. I put together a business case that showed it would save money on reduced insurance. They told me I was wasting my time. :roll:


You may want to keep this under review - albeit with new employers. More companies (typically the bigger ones) are implementing some form of driver training/risk assessment through the likes of IAM/ROSPA etc. There does seem to be more awareness out there.

On the wider issue;

I think it is a shame when the IAM get generally criticised on this forum.

The simple picture is surely this; if all drivers had training along the lines of that given and expected by IAM (and ROSPA), as cyclists we would be safer on the roads.

If we campaign for better driver awareness and training, but at the same time pick holes in the likes of IAM we might as well wait until hell freezes over for any progress?

Of course there will be the odd concern about their policies (can they really claim to represent cyclists as well? :? ) and occasional activities (such as surveys :wink: ). There will also no doubt be concerns about some attitudes of particular members – like in any club or organisation (and as in the IAM forum discussion noted above). But I would rather we kept focused on the wider, and overwhelmingly more concerning issues such as Mr Clarkson and his like and general media portrayal of cyclists rights, than being critical of an organisation that expects it’s members to have respect for all road users and is committed to improving driving standards. Why should the IAM/ROSPA be the ones on the defensive?

I am an IAM member. :wink:

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mjr
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Re: Speeding...

Postby mjr » 24 Jan 2014, 5:58pm

DavidT wrote:I think it is a shame when the IAM get generally criticised on this forum.
...
I am an IAM member. :wink:

Cool. Have you tried to get the pro-segregation pro-helmet cycle policy reversed or at least neutralised?

The reason why IAM get generally criticised sometimes is because they attack cycling sometimes. Stop attacking cycling, stop getting criticised.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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AlaninWales
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Re: Speeding...

Postby AlaninWales » 24 Jan 2014, 6:04pm

mjr wrote:
DavidT wrote:I think it is a shame when the IAM get generally criticised on this forum.
...
I am an IAM member. :wink:

Cool. Have you tried to get the pro-segregation pro-helmet cycle policy reversed or at least neutralised?

The reason why IAM get generally criticised sometimes is because they attack cycling sometimes. Stop attacking cycling, stop getting criticised.

The IAM as an organisation is not run by its members, but by IAM Chiswick (aka 'Ivory Towers' or (for some reason) 'The Black Pearl').

DavidT
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Re: Speeding...

Postby DavidT » 24 Jan 2014, 8:04pm

mjr wrote:
DavidT wrote:I think it is a shame when the IAM get generally criticised on this forum.
...
I am an IAM member. :wink:

Cool. Have you tried to get the pro-segregation pro-helmet cycle policy reversed or at least neutralised?

The reason why IAM get generally criticised sometimes is because they attack cycling sometimes. Stop attacking cycling, stop getting criticised.


To be honest, and perhaps to my embarrassment I wasn't particularly aware of their policies on this issue. :oops: I'll have a read up and by all means consider giving them some member feedback.

My defence of IAM is nevertheless based on my experience of the expectations and attitudes shown by their examiners I have met at numerous times (both in and out of car), rather than the portfolio of head office policies.