moderation (was cycling 23 times more dangerous...)

[skidd]

<moderator note: This thread about moderation has been split off to discuss moderation, rather than detract from the discussion on the thread.>

I'd really like to post on this thread, but before I do, could a moderator assure me that my posts and other people's posts pertaining to it will not be deleted by them? (Assuming my posts are, as always, reasonable, factual and mostly relevant)

[Graham]

Your posting ( above ) immediately caught my attention as a well-known username - from a moderator point-of-view.

We can accord you no special treatment = normal moderation.

[skidd]

Is that a "No" then?

[Vorpal]

I'd really like to post on this thread, but before I do, could a moderator assure me that my posts and other people's posts pertaining to it will not be deleted by them? (Assuming my posts are, as always, reasonable, factual and mostly relevant)

We would welcome your contributions as long as they remain respectful of other users.

[skidd]

Sorry for the edit, but on my settings this reply has gone to the top of a fresh page.

I asked "could a moderator assure me that my posts and other people's posts pertaining to it will not be deleted by them? (Assuming my posts are, as always, reasonable, factual and mostly relevant)"

There were qualifications but that's the crux of my request.

Please, just a "yes" or a "no"

PS Please do not delete posts which are not 'respectful' to me. I wish to see them. i may learn from them, and certainly I would wish the opportunity to reply to them.

[Vorpal]

Skidd,

We will not delete any posts that that meet forum guidelines. Posts that do not meet these, however will be subject to moderation. There isn't a 'just yes or no' in that.

[skidd]

Of course there is a yes or no in that. It is a binary question, an on/off situation. It appears that the answer is "No" (i.e. a moderator can not "assure me that my posts and other people's posts pertaining to it will not be deleted.. even if.. they are reasonable, factual and mostly relevant").

The whole point of me asking in the first place is that I have had swathes of posts taken down which have not contravened any written guidelines. I had taken considerable time and care over them, and I certainly would not want to invest resources into something which is going to be deleted out of hand.

I struggle with the word 'respect' and believe many people would confuse negative criticism with lack of it (respect). But by it's nature there will be negative criticism on this forum, some of it deserved, which would offer potential for improvement, and some of it unwarranted, which may then be highlighted and refuted, thus illuminating all readers.

I, no doubt, may be accused of being pedantic, stubborn, a pain the ****, facetious, a bad speller, and many other things, but the fact of the matter is, I have asked one very simple question, a question that the moderators have avoided answering in the most succinct way possible. Either they (you) can assure me you can or you can't. If you can I will feel my posts are not going to be wasted, If you can't I will not post on this topic (That is not to say I will not refresh the thread on censorship)

I am aware that "The forum staff have the right to remove or edit (without consultation) any post made on the forum" and "the right to remove (without consultation) any user"

Although this 'get out' may seem to make life a little more comfortable for some people, I am sure that in the long time it becomes a form of subjective censorship and fundamentally I am asking are we going to be victims of it, and become party to all the ills that curtailment of speech brings?

If someone (you) doesn't answer a question, do you ever stop to ask yourself why you don't want to answer it, even if it demands only the simplest of replies?

So please, "yes" or "no"

[Tonyf33]

Why not instead of re-writing your point re yes and no and just write what you need to in as factual manner as possible & raise the points you want.

I called a forum member out describing them in a not particularly nice way after they had deliberately sold me a pair of scrap wheels described as mint 'best' & the Mods removed my warning to others about trading with such a skank! Frankly I thought it was unfair, they didn't really deal with the problem at all and I was left out of pocket and the forum member allowed to remain despite the actual crime they committed to another forum member..
I thought I was doing the forum a service to warn of this skullduggery, the mods thought differently...

[Vorpal]

Skidd: I cannot assure you that your posts will not be removed or moderated. I thought that was clear from Graham's first response.

Tonyf33: It is not our place to determine the guilt or otherwise of forum members selling goods on here. We do what we can to prevent fraud, but we have no evidence, other than your word that the goods you received were not as described. Please try to see that from our perspective, there was little more to it than two forums members calling each other names. If an actual crime has occurred, it should be reported to the police.

[Graham]

skidd :

In view of your postings above I strongly suggest that you do not post on this topic.

Futhermore, I suggest that you stop posting on this forum completely.

Basically I/we have had enough !!

There are the written rules.
There are also circumstances where moderators have to use their judgement within the rules as a framework for their decisions.
Beyond that we fall back on the legal system and commonly expected standards of behaviour.

If you don't like what we do then stop posting here.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Although this 'get out' may seem to make life a little more comfortable for some people, I am sure that in the long time it becomes a form of subjective censorship and fundamentally I am asking are we going to be victims of it, and become party to all the ills that curtailment of speech brings?

You are very welcome to have freedom of speech on the Internet. You can rent or buy your own server and domain name, and put whatever you want on it.

However, this is CTC's forum. Just as I would ask you to leave my house if (in my view) you were being an unpleasant guest, CTC's moderators are allowed to ask you to leave if they believe similarly.

If you want a completely unmoderated cycling forum, you would need to either host your own, or use a distributed system (i.e. no site owner/operator to make moderation decisions) such as Usenet: the group uk.rec.cycling may be what you're after. Bear in mind, though, that the regulars there were so fed up with the "trolling" from anti-cyclists that they voluntarily voted for "curtailment of speech" and set up a sister moderated group, uk.rec.cycling.moderated.

[[XAP]Bob]

Plenty of critical viewpoints and discussions on this forum.

So long as you keep a civil tongue your posts will be left alone. If you can't keep a civil tongue then they won't be - if that's a one off "late night after a long day at work" vent then nothing more will need to be said. If it's a regular occurrence then it might.

I'm not sure I've seen (m)any of the posts which have been moderated, but judging by some of the posts that are left alone I have to say that the moderators here do a pretty good job of allowing full and frank discussions.

I'd have thought that the post you wanted to make would likely have taken less time to write than this thread has so far...

[661-Pete]

I don't know what the issue with "skidd"s posts was about, but this thread, and particularly the allusion to 'censorship' in another related thread, touches a nerve with me. Maybe it's me, maybe I'm just 'touchy' although I stress, this forum's given me no problems!

If the forum will bear with me, I'll name no names, simply refer to "forum A" and "forum B", neither of which is this forum. I was the victim of a gross and obscene insult posted on forum A, at a time when I was no longer a member of that one so couldn't reply. E-mails to the admins of forum A got me nowhere, in fact they had colluded in the insult. Hence I posted a complaint on forum B, of which I was a member at the time, demanding an explanation and an apology from the team on forum A. I wish I could remember the exact words I used, but I can't, as you can see: this (redacted) is what I got in a PM from the mods on forum B:

Hi Pete,

Your post regarding <forum A> has been pulled by the Mods, so we wanted to let you know why.

We moderate posts purely on behalf of <forum B> and what has happened here on the <forum B> forums.

Anything from <forum A> or any other fora is outside of our remit, and should therefore be addressed to the administrators of those fora. If that isn't possible then it is probably just best left in the past.

It's in no-ones interest to start a row with other fora, so we're just not going to go there.

Thanks for your kind words about the modding on <forum B>. We do our best.

Best regards,
The Mods.

I hope I've not done wrong by copying that PM here on CTC forum in full. Although what they wrote was perhaps understandable in the circumstances, I was nonetheless furiously angry on receiving that PM, wrote an irate PM to the admin (again, I can't recall the exact words) and then quit the forum. The matter still rankles with me. The last line of that message is particularly ironic in the circumstances.

End of rant. I've alluded to these demons of mine before, I'll try to keep them out of regular threads...

[edit: 3 Jul]After posting the above, I thought a bit and decided to make a further, entirely courteous, approach to the owner of <forum A>, by PM using an anonymous reg. which I'd created some months ago and was hoarding up for this very purpose. The only outcome appears to be, I've wasted a registration. Ho hum. I just hope someone, somewhere, sleeps easy at nights - he has a few things on his conscience...
What a shame cyclists don't always get along with one another! I know nothing about 'Skidd' - as I said before - but that seems to have been their hang-up. It would be good if it got sorted without sanctions.