Here's a puzzle for you...

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Mick F
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby Mick F » 26 Jun 2015, 2:43pm

Manc, can I ask a few questions please?
You say Earth is flat and covered by a dome. I'm not saying it is and I'm not saying it isn't.

How high is this dome and what holds it up?
Does it meet all round at the edge of the Earth?
If so, is Earth circular?

How thick is the disc of the flat Earth?
What's on the bottom of it?
What does it rest on?
Maybe it floats?
If so, in "what" does it float?

Serious questions in the hope of getting straight answers.
Mick F. Cornwall

Manc33
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby Manc33 » 26 Jun 2015, 8:46pm

Mick F wrote:Manc, can I ask a few questions please?
You say Earth is flat and covered by a dome. I'm not saying it is and I'm not saying it isn't.


I'm not saying either way myself, but it seems more proof points to a flat Earth than a round one - which of course means ignoring anything NASA tells us, along with Newton and Copernicus.

Mick F wrote:How high is this dome and what holds it up?


I don't know about its height but if the sun, moon, stars and planets up there are all super low density objects, nothing needs to "keep them up". Its like asking what keeps a helium balloon up on a ceiling. My question is what keeps them at a "maintained distance" as opposed to floating away - that would have to be the magnetic North, since it is all revolving around that.

This at least makes some sort of sense - the spin of the sun keeps it from ending up sticking to the magnetic north and the magnetic north stops it from floating away completely.

If true, think about the power to weight ratio of the sun!

Then Eric Dollard says stuff like "The sun isn't an object, it is a point in space and time". He says what we experience (as in feel the heat, see the light) is all a secondary "waste product" and up there, the sun isn't "hot". It reacts with atoms. So if you could go up there without being made of atoms, you wouldn't burn.

The only way that's possible is to successfully remote view or something.

Flat Earthers say nothing can go all that high up because it has to be made out of a material and in doing that, it will just cook the occupants of any craft, same with firing rockets towards it or whatever else.

Mick F wrote:Does it meet all round at the edge of the Earth?


I don't know.

Mick F wrote:If so, is Earth circular?


It is apparently square, although the sun encircles it, parts of sea that would be frozen aren't, next to land with snow and ice on that is frozen, giving the effect of a square.

This leads into a lot of other things like the hats people have on graduating, a judge's hat. All the sayings like "fair and square" and "on the level" (flat Earth).

Its true that Antarctica on a globe looks a bit, well, square.

Flat Earthers say the outer rim of the flat Earth is an inverted version of that coastline, just with a lot more of it.

Mick F wrote:How thick is the disc of the flat Earth?


No one knows. The maximum anyone drilled down was the Russians drilling for 30 years and gave up, they got 8 miles down.

Mick F wrote:What's on the bottom of it?


I don't know.

Mick F wrote:What does it rest on?


I don't know but lava is there under the Earth all the same whether it is round or flat.

Mick F wrote:Maybe it floats?


I hope not. :twisted:

Because if it is, then we're going somewhere... Earth would be moving, which flies in the face of the Flat Earth theory.

Mick F wrote:If so, in "what" does it float?


Pffffffffffff, who knows, but in the bible it says "god separated the waters from the waters" which might be a clue, not that I am a Christian.

Mick F wrote:Serious questions in the hope of getting straight answers.


Its too hard to answer a lot of it.

One thing they can't explain is meteors. They claim on the one hand a lack of gravity and lack of vacuum up there, but meteors have fallen down from up there, you can't have that both ways.

I think they just say all meteors are a lie or something to try to cover it. Pah, what about that massive hole in Arizona! Something big fell from the sky and it cannot be disputed. Some claim it was a star... but not if they are super low density. Maybe a star "formed" up there wrong and fell down, assuming stars aren't what we think.

Some of them say you become a star when you die, I can't rule it out. As if what's going on up there is creating a "waste product" environment down here and this isn't even reality or something.
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aspiringcyclist
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby aspiringcyclist » 26 Jun 2015, 9:33pm

Manc33 wrote:One thing they can't explain is meteors. They claim on the one hand a lack of gravity and lack of vacuum up there, but meteors have fallen down from up there, you can't have that both ways.



What? No one says there is no gravitational attraction 'up there'.

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gaz
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby gaz » 26 Jun 2015, 10:22pm

Possibly Manc33 is referring to the people that believe there is no gravity 'down here' either.
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TonyR
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby TonyR » 26 Jun 2015, 11:23pm

Manc33 wrote:
Mick F wrote:Serious questions in the hope of getting straight answers.



Well you did have to go and ask :roll:

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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby aspiringcyclist » 26 Jun 2015, 11:49pm

Yes that does make more sense that way. I can't believe the lengths that some people will go.

Manc33 they are really going about it backwards. They try to explain any conflicting information away. There is nothing that is impossible to explain away, but it does sometimes require some insane mental acrobatics.

What predictions does a flat Earth model make, and how can we test those predictions to see if they the results match?

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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby Manc33 » 28 Jun 2015, 5:56am

The main one is the horizon being at eye level without any curve... at 20 miles up.
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby TonyR » 28 Jun 2015, 7:43am

Manc33 wrote:The main one is the horizon being at eye level without any curve... at 20 miles up.


I've tested that prediction personally and it fails. The horizon is definitely curved even by 11 miles up.

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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby Vorpal » 28 Jun 2015, 9:10am

TonyR wrote:
Manc33 wrote:The main one is the horizon being at eye level without any curve... at 20 miles up.


I've tested that prediction personally and it fails. The horizon is definitely curved even by 11 miles up.


Manc33 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:From a sufficiently high altitude (40 000 feet or more) the curvature of the earth is visible. From 55 000 feet it is obvious. Passengers on the Concorde could see it. Passengers on a normal transatlantic jet have to look for it. It's most easily visible when the sun is on the horizon.

What have I seen from a plane at 40000 feet?


Plane windows have curved glass which throws a lot of people off, plus they are on the plane thinking there's going to be a curve there beforehand.

Why is the horizon at eye level at 40,000 feet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjkERI3L3Fw
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby TonyR » 28 Jun 2015, 10:22am

Vorpal wrote:
TonyR wrote:
Manc33 wrote:The main one is the horizon being at eye level without any curve... at 20 miles up.


I've tested that prediction personally and it fails. The horizon is definitely curved even by 11 miles up.


Manc33 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:From a sufficiently high altitude (40 000 feet or more) the curvature of the earth is visible. From 55 000 feet it is obvious. Passengers on the Concorde could see it. Passengers on a normal transatlantic jet have to look for it. It's most easily visible when the sun is on the horizon.

What have I seen from a plane at 40000 feet?


Plane windows have curved glass which throws a lot of people off, plus they are on the plane thinking there's going to be a curve there beforehand.

Why is the horizon at eye level at 40,000 feet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjkERI3L3Fw


The windows on Concorde are not curved. The horizon looks flat through the same window at much lower altitudes. Straight line objects on the ground taken through the window show no curvature (see below).

At 40,000 ft the horizon is 250 miles away so will be 2 degrees below horizontal. That's is indistinguishable by eye from it being at eye-level unless you have calibrated horizontal reference points to compare with.

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gaz
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby gaz » 28 Jun 2015, 11:41am

Photographs prove nothing.

All photo's not taken by Manc33 or members of his/her approved panel of photographers are either altered, faked, composites or paintings.

Keep up :wink: .
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TonyR
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby TonyR » 28 Jun 2015, 12:31pm

Damn, I didn't think anyone would see through it. Your tin foil hat must be stopping my controlling your mind through your computer screen :wink:

Manc33
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby Manc33 » 28 Jun 2015, 3:20pm

A horizon ten miles away could be curved as a result of curved glass where lines on the runway less than 100 feet away won't be, because of the distances involved.

To me its the same principle as holding something 10mm away from a magnifying glass, then holding it 100mm away.

The plane window acts as a "lens" of sorts. Any curve at all in the glass (even if it looks flat!) is enough to distort a flat line ten miles away.

In fact if you looked across the plane aisle out of a window over the other side of the plane to where you're sitting, I bet the curve on the horizon looks different to the curve on the horizon through the window you're sat next to, but I have never tested it.

If plane windows curve and cause that effect then it has to be thrown out, you can't prove a curve or a flat horizon that way, because it is being observed through something that is distorting what's being observed from the outset.
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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby TonyR » 28 Jun 2015, 3:37pm

Manc33 wrote:A horizon ten miles away could be curved as a result of curved glass where lines on the runway less than 100 feet away won't be, because of the distances involved.

To me its the same principle as holding something 10mm away from a magnifying glass, then holding it 100mm away.

The plane window acts as a "lens" of sorts. Any curve at all in the glass (even if it looks flat!) is enough to distort a flat line ten miles away.

In fact if you looked across the plane aisle out of a window over the other side of the plane to where you're sitting, I bet the curve on the horizon looks different to the curve on the horizon through the window you're sat next to, but I have never tested it.

If plane windows curve and cause that effect then it has to be thrown out, you can't prove a curve or a flat horizon that way, because it is being observed through something that is distorting what's being observed from the outset.


Ah, I had not accounted for the laws of physics and optics being different in Manc33world from the real world. In which case I will concede that in Manc33world the world may well be flat and carried on the back of elephants whereas the rest of us in real world can relax with the knowledge its a (approximate) sphere. Next time I'm at 60,000 ft I'll stick my head out the window to look just to be sure.

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Re: Here's a puzzle for you...

Postby Manc33 » 28 Jun 2015, 9:15pm

What plane are you getting on that goes to 60,000 feet?

The limit of commercial airplanes is about 45,000 feet.

Something straight that is ten miles away being viewed through curved glass will be more curved than something that is straight that is a few hundred feet away. Bending physics and optics isn't required, just a difference in distance - a big difference - 10 miles (the horizon) is 528 times the distance of 100 feet.

Then there's the fact that any photo taken on a plane is with a camera with its own lens, whatever effect that might have on things.

The horizon is 173 miles away when viewed from 20,000 feet up. So then you'd be peering out of the plane windows at a horizon that is 913,440 feet away! Quite a difference between that and lines on a runway less than 100 feet away.

What is there to not believe about curved glass having this effect given the massive differences in the distance? Go a bit higher up than 20,000 feet and you're looking at a horizon that is a million feet away.

My only problem with it is whether the Concorde has curved windows or not, only the manufacturer could or would know that (unless someone put a small metal ruler up against the glass to check) but it only needs to be ever so slightly curved for something ten miles away to be affected.
Last edited by Manc33 on 28 Jun 2015, 9:30pm, edited 5 times in total.
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