Bikeability for drivers

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Si
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Bikeability for drivers

Postby Si » 22 Jan 2016, 9:21am

http://www.ctc.org.uk/publication/cycle ... nuary-2016

Bikeability as part of driving test with L3 for bus and lorry drivers. I like the idea ('cos it mean more work for me...mercenary, moi?) but can't see it ever happening.

It would, though, give some drivers a better idea of how to act around cyclists, but a small number would still act like selfish eejits...whether on the bike or in the car.

Although one counter-argument is that it can undervalue cycling: that because you have to first do a cycling test and then a driving test it suggests that the driving test is more important and thus drivers are more important.......rather than the reality: that drivers are more dangerous.

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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby beardy » 22 Jan 2016, 9:36am

This whole idea of pedestrian-vehicle-motor vehicle duality for cyclists can get stretched too far.

Should a HGV driver have to sit a "walking test" inorder to be safe around peds?
Then we will have set up a precedent of a mandatory test of cycling proficiency which must be passed, next thing will be extending a ban to cyclists through disqualification or failure.

Filling out my last car insurance renewal, I frequently fell foul of cars' greater importance.

It asks how long I have had a full driving licence, so I used the much longer period from when I passed my motorcycle test rather than the car test, though I am sure they meant the latter even though they asked for the former.

Also it asked if I had access to any other vehicles, despite doing more miles on my cycles than my car and using the cycles for many of the domestic trips that other folk would use the car for, I said no.
The question did not say motor vehicles but unlike when answering the other question, I read between the lines on this one.

These are largely academic issues as I have held both licences for so long it doesnt matter and I already benefit from using the bike instead of the car by having a low mileage insurance policy.
It just shows that in the popular mind, the car is already the only one that matters.

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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby Vorpal » 22 Jan 2016, 2:25pm

I like the idea, but I similarly feel it is probably unrealistic.

What are realistic, are making Bikeability available for anyone who wants it, and requiring cyclist (or vulnerable road user) awareness training for anyone who holds a professional driving licence. This could be part of the testing, or a follow-up, like advanced driving, or part of the training available to probationary drivers.
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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby Psamathe » 22 Jan 2016, 2:31pm

Si wrote:http://www.ctc.org.uk/publication/cycle-campaign-news-cycledigest/cycle-campaign-news-january-2016

Bikeability as part of driving test with L3 for bus and lorry drivers. I like the idea ('cos it mean more work for me...mercenary, moi?) but can't see it ever happening.

It would, though, give some drivers a better idea of how to act around cyclists, but a small number would still act like selfish eejits...whether on the bike or in the car.

Although one counter-argument is that it can undervalue cycling: that because you have to first do a cycling test and then a driving test it suggests that the driving test is more important and thus drivers are more important.......rather than the reality: that drivers are more dangerous.

Or might even backfire. Get them to do the Bikability training on safe quiet roads. And without those lorries charging past with only an inch or two clearance, without that Range Rover turning left across the front of you, etc. they might just end-up with the view "what's the big problem - I've cycle trained and no issues with drivers ..."

Of course if you could run the course using e.g. the Elephant and Castle or similar (actually I have no idea how bad the Elephant and Castle is, just wanting to suggest putting those trainees out where they would appreciate what drivers really do and how scary it can be ... and the trainer would probably be sacked for doing that).

Ian

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Si
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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby Si » 23 Jan 2016, 5:03pm

If it's bikeability done properly then they will have to prove their ability in traffic. Form l2 this won't be multilane roundabouts and dual carriage ways, but will involve holding road position through pinchpoints and major to minor right turns...so they will understand how much space cyclists need and why they might take the lane.

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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby TonyR » 23 Jan 2016, 7:56pm

London cabbies spend months on a moped doing The Knowledge. Doesn't improve their driving round cyclists one iota.

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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby pjclinch » 27 Jan 2016, 11:30am

TonyR wrote:London cabbies spend months on a moped doing The Knowledge. Doesn't improve their driving round cyclists one iota.


But the point of that is to visit every corner of London in the shortest possible time, not to be formally tutored in traffic interaction, so I'm not entirely sure to the degree you're comparing apples with apples.

Vorpal wrote:What are realistic, are making Bikeability available for anyone who wants it, and requiring cyclist (or vulnerable road user) awareness training for anyone who holds a professional driving licence. This could be part of the testing, or a follow-up, like advanced driving, or part of the training available to probationary drivers.


I think a standard component addressing sharing the roads with more vulnerable users could be taken on fairly well by driving schools worth their salt without putting any more pressure on an already inadequate Bikeability provision setup. Level 3 training for everyone learning to drive is just not going to be possible without a huge change in resources (sad, but true).

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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby Vorpal » 27 Jan 2016, 12:06pm

Maybe the government can use the money intended for the Thatcher museum on Bikeability instead. :shock: :lol:
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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby TonyR » 27 Jan 2016, 1:39pm

pjclinch wrote:
TonyR wrote:London cabbies spend months on a moped doing The Knowledge. Doesn't improve their driving round cyclists one iota.


But the point of that is to visit every corner of London in the shortest possible time, not to be formally tutored in traffic interaction, so I'm not entirely sure to the degree you're comparing apples with apples.



Yebbut having spent months on the receiving end you might think they would be more aware of the problem and not doling it out with the rest.

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Si
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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby Si » 27 Jan 2016, 1:58pm

TonyR wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
TonyR wrote:London cabbies spend months on a moped doing The Knowledge. Doesn't improve their driving round cyclists one iota.


But the point of that is to visit every corner of London in the shortest possible time, not to be formally tutored in traffic interaction, so I'm not entirely sure to the degree you're comparing apples with apples.



Yebbut having spent months on the receiving end you might think they would be more aware of the problem and not doling it out with the rest.


Is there major friction between cabbies and mopeds in London? I can understand it between cabbies an cyclists due to the speed difference but would have thought that cabbies don't really see mopeds as "holding them up".

And as the cabbies were going at the speed of the other trafic when on their mopeds they probably had many fewer issues with other traffic than a slower cyclists would, as the moped would be overtaken much less frequently.

On the other hand, with bikeability as a step to get to driving I could foresee many just doing the minimum possible to get through it ASAP and get to a car, thus not really taking on board a plethora of difficulties that cyclists face.

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Re: Bikeability for drivers

Postby RickH » 27 Jan 2016, 2:15pm

Si wrote:I can understand it between cabbies an cyclists due to the speed difference but would have thought that cabbies don't really see mopeds as "holding them up".

Having had the "pleasure" of driving in central London quite recently, my observation was that the only vehicles faster than cyclists were motorbikes (higher top speed & could still get through most of the same gaps). If you had the rare opportunity to pass a cyclist they had almost invariably re-overtaken you within 30 seconds. :D

Rick.