New wheels recommend please

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
AlastairS
Posts: 510
Joined: 15 Aug 2011, 3:24pm
Location: Aberdeen

New wheels recommend please

Postby AlastairS » 5 Feb 2016, 7:41pm

Hi,
My Dawes Galaxy tourer is my second bike, I only use it commuting or going to the shops.
The rims on my wheels are noticeably concave, should I buy new wheels and if so can you recommend something as I wouldn't know where to begin other than I would like
28mm tyres and the wheels , I don't want to spend much.
Thanks

scottg
Posts: 663
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 8:44pm
Location: Highland Heights Kentucky,, USA

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby scottg » 5 Feb 2016, 8:27pm

I'd buy new rims and spoke nipples then rebuild the wheels.
I've re-rimmed the same wheel 3 times, with the same spokes.
Never broke a spoke, but I am the worlds slowest wheel builder.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why not the best, buy Cyclo-Benelux.

AlastairS
Posts: 510
Joined: 15 Aug 2011, 3:24pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby AlastairS » 5 Feb 2016, 8:58pm

Thanks Scott,
I've never done this, wheel building, but willing to give it a try if you think it would be possible for someone with no experience.
Is there a Youtube video that might help .
And advice on where to buy rims would be good.
How much will it cost roughly ?
And, is it straightforward to swap cassette and hubs over ?
Thanks

pete75
Posts: 11806
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby pete75 » 5 Feb 2016, 9:35pm

I'd recommend this downloadable book http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php . Roger Musson provides the best guide to building wheels yourself that I've seen . Musson even includes drawings and instructions on how to build your own wheel building stand and other useful tools.

A good source of rims and spokes at a fair price is nidderdale cycles who seem to trade entirely on Ebay. If you wnat strong touring rims for your Galaxy these would be a reasonable choice. For some reason they don't sell nipples but these are not overly expensive elsewhere - I pay under £2 for packs of 40 Dt swiss brass nipples.

MikeF
Posts: 3769
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby MikeF » 6 Feb 2016, 12:24am

The front wheel is much easier than the rear as it is symmetrical. Check Sheldon Brown's website http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html. Don't buy Musson's book - at least not before you read Sheldon. You need to determine the spoke pattern of the rim especially if it's an old bike. Musson almost ignores this. You can buy rims from Spa Cycles for example. Tape the old new rim to the old and match the spoke alignment - they will alternate around the rim - loosen the spokes and swap spokes one by one. That way each spoke is kept in the same alignment on the rim and hub.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

mercalia
Posts: 11488
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby mercalia » 6 Feb 2016, 2:08am

hmm building your own wheels. I just did it but I had a spoke tension meter which helped a lot - very necessary when your dont really know what you are doing. I would NOT have liked to do it without - experienced people here will tell you such a meter not necessary but they are EXPERIENCED & they have long since forgotton what it feels like to be inept. It took me some time and mine turned out ok as the rims were heavy duty so probably even a monkey could have done it. But I think there was a lot of luck in it. How heavy are you? if you are light you might be able to get away with some cheap wheels from Ebay

nosmarbaj
Posts: 234
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 3:02pm
Location: Reading

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby nosmarbaj » 6 Feb 2016, 7:16am

I've built a number of wheels using Sheldon Brown's instructions and none of them has let me down. I don't have a tensiometer, and I'm pretty much tone deaf so I struggle with Sheldon's suggestion of "plucking" spokes and using the tone generated as a guide to tension, but the wheels still seem OK. These were MTB/touring wheels with fairly beefy rims - it might be more difficult to get lightweight rims right. I'm not saying a tensiometer is not useful - I'm sure my wheels would be even better if I had one.

The suggestion of taping new rim to old one and moving spokes across one by one is good, but only if the "effective rim diameter" (ERD) is the same or very close (<2mm different), otherwise you will need different length spokes.

Building wheels is fun (for most people). If you have another bike available anyway, you're not risking much by giving it a go.

Phileas
Posts: 192
Joined: 18 Feb 2009, 6:12pm
Location: Bristol

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby Phileas » 6 Feb 2016, 8:31am

I've built a fair number of wheels for use on a commuter bike. The first set of instructions I tried to follow left me tearing my hair out, then I discovered Sheldon's and it all became relatively straight forward. It's really not as difficult as you might think.

I use a cheap truing stand but I dare say it can be done using the bike frame. I've never used a tensionmeter- I just use the tone method. I don't worry about perfect even tension, it's never caused any issues as far as I can tell.

pwa
Posts: 10409
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby pwa » 6 Feb 2016, 8:35am

If you do opt for new wheels you can expect to pay £150 for a good pair from somewhere like Spa Cycles. You will want an MTB style hub like Shimano Deore and a rim that will take tyres of 32mm width. 36 spokes front and rear. (How old is your Galaxy. It gets more complicated for very old bikes)

nirakaro
Posts: 1026
Joined: 22 Dec 2007, 2:01am

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby nirakaro » 6 Feb 2016, 10:28am

I’m just building a pair of wheels, and it’s definitely fun, and not difficult - ok, I’ve done it before, but the first time I did it I hadn’t! - and I’d describe it as easy, but not simple. Certainly wise to have another wheel to look at while you’re lacing it up. And be ready to undo and redo it a time or two if necessary.
It’s certainly economical - my Rigida rims were under £25 for two (look at Yframediscounts, or Fatbirds.co.uk), stainless spokes if you need them are £13 for 36 on ebay, and you’d expect to reuse the hubs.
Truing the new wheels is a lot easier if you’ve got a stand, but can certainly be done on an upside-down bike. For tension, I’ve just squeezed each pair of spokes together with my hand, and compared how it feels with an existing wheel. Never been a problem.
Give it a try!

rmurphy195
Posts: 1424
Joined: 20 May 2011, 11:23am
Location: South Birmingham

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby rmurphy195 » 6 Feb 2016, 10:31am

Have you tried your local bike shop yet for a quote for new rims? Assuming you are happy with the hubs.

The cassette is easy to remove and put onto a new hub if you have the tools - a chain whip and cassette remover to remove it, I then use my car torque wrench to put it back on - the setting is stamped on the cassette, about 40 ft lbs oops newtonmetres I think. They lock on with a serrated edge, trying without the torque wrench (and I know a lot of people manage to do so) can leave you thinking its tight but then you find the thing comes loose after a few hundred miles (got the T shirt :( ) Once you've done it though its surprisingly easy the next time around, and of course just replacing the cassette as it wears becomes cheaper.

I've found the park tools website a useful resource for this type of thing e.g. http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... stallation
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

mercalia
Posts: 11488
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby mercalia » 6 Feb 2016, 10:35am

I found the tension meter VERY useful just as much to know when to STOP tightening the spokes - I used the known good Spa wheels as a model. No amount of plucking will tell you that. Experienced people dont need them but first timers do I think. I found plucking spokes as a way to get tension eveness incredibly hard and could never get it, that just added one more uncertainty to what was already something full of doubt. I am rather pleased I DID get the wheels built - since I had the hubs already and got the rims and spokes off ebay for just £26 I now have a spare set of not bad wheels :)

pwa
Posts: 10409
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby pwa » 6 Feb 2016, 10:49am

mercalia wrote:I found the tension meter VERY useful just as much to know when to STOP tightening the spokes - I used the known good Spa wheels as a model. No amount of plucking will tell you that. Experienced people dont need them but first timers do I think. I found plucking spokes as a way to get tension eveness incredibly hard and could never get it, that just added one more uncertainty to what was already something full of doubt. I am rather pleased I DID get the wheels built - since I had the hubs already and got the rims and spokes off ebay for just £26 I now have a spare set of not bad wheels :)


I put a new rim on a rear wheel and did it without a tension meter. I just made sure that I didn't overdo the tension. Enough to get it true and solid, with repeated pressing down on a matted floor (wheel flat on the floor, hands pressing down on the rim) to work out any bedding in, followed by repeated minor truing. When a spoke felt too stiff to tighten further I loosened a spoke on the other side to get the rim true. It sounds hit and miss but that wheel has now done a two week tour and thousands of miles of local use without going out of true or any problems at all. I think you just need to tell yourself that you are not going to use too much force on any individual spoke.

Freddie
Posts: 2329
Joined: 12 Jan 2008, 12:01pm

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby Freddie » 6 Feb 2016, 11:03am

I think with the very stiff rims of today you can actually get too much tension into a rim, which when you add time and corrosion from road salt, can cause cracking at the eyelets. If anyone has ever laced up an old single wall rim, they'll know at what relatively low tensions they tend to deform. Given that such wheels can stay in true in such low tensions, there is probably more tension range in the typical double walled rim than people imagine. The main concern is that the non-drive side spokes are taught enough not to slacken off in use, this being a problem with more heavily dished wheels.

OP, if you don't want to build wheels, you can buy some from Rose Bikes, then stress relieve and true them, achieving much the same effect for less time and effort than a completely handbuilt wheel.

Phileas
Posts: 192
Joined: 18 Feb 2009, 6:12pm
Location: Bristol

Re: New wheels recommend please

Postby Phileas » 6 Feb 2016, 11:16am

You really don't need a tensionmeter to tell you when to stop. Plucking really does work. My commuting wheels stay true for as long as the rims last which is all that matters. (Although now I've switched to disc brakes I might start finding something else fails first. :shock: )