It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
TonyR
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby TonyR » 9 Mar 2016, 1:45pm

honesty wrote:Virgin is actually not great as an example of what is being suggested here, as everything is unmistakably branded with Virgin everywhere. A better example would be Unilever. Have a look at how many trading names that company has!


Very different situations. Virgin is a brand, Unilever isn't. Virgin want you to associate their generally perceived image with all their companies. Unilever want to hide themselves so you will quite happily consider two apparently competing brands of washing powder without realising they are both made by Unilever so not in competition at all.

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 9 Mar 2016, 7:01pm

Psamathe wrote:... Except, under their own articles I understood that after the (your) petition they are obliged to hold poll of the membership BEFORE making the change. ...

Actions taken on the re-brand prior to receipt of the petition remain valid: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=103825&start=105#p989757

The petition was sent by registered post on 3rd March 2016, I do not know when the bundle of documents that comprise the petition physically arrived at Guildford. I do not know how long it may take to validate/authenticate at least two hundred of the entries upon it. I do not know at what point the petition is considered to have been "received".

I do not have a legal advisor to interpret the relevant clause of Article 11.
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

Psamathe
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 9 Mar 2016, 7:45pm

gaz wrote:
Psamathe wrote:... Except, under their own articles I understood that after the (your) petition they are obliged to hold poll of the membership BEFORE making the change. ...

Actions taken on the re-brand prior to receipt of the petition remain valid: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=103825&start=105#p989757

The petition was sent by registered post on 3rd March 2016, I do not know when the bundle of documents that comprise the petition physically arrived at Guildford. I do not know how long it may take to validate/authenticate at least two hundred of the entries upon it. I do not know at what point the petition is considered to have been "received".

I do not have a legal advisor to interpret the relevant clause of Article 11.

So, logically (and I am not and don't have a legal expert) I expect that actions not carried out when the petition is delivered cannot be carried out/done. I.e. and press release, public events, etc. related to the re-brand.

And were they to go ahead they might easily make themselves open to action by those members disagreeing with the thing (i.e. continuing to pursue something that is subject to a poll of the membership). And even if that is not the case, having a membership poll after the public PR release stuff would undoubtedly cause much ridicule (I can see the headlines now ...). But I'm no lawyer so I'm thinking aloud not pronouncing legal truths.

(Sorry if my tone is a bit sharp - unintentional but I've been more than hacked-off by another forum member and my keyboard is suffering with frustration).

Ian

Euskadi
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Euskadi » 10 Mar 2016, 10:57am

Philip Benstead wrote:Have we seen this?


On Fri, Mar 4, 2016, at 01:12 PM, Julie Rand wrote:
View this email in a browser


Dear Member Group Secretary

Cycling UK brand roll-out
As you will know from recent communications from Paul Tuohy and David Cox, CTC is shortly to rebrand itself as 'Cycling UK'.
This exciting news means that we will soon be issuing CTC groups with all the tools and information they need in order to adopt the new brand.
In the week commencing Monday 7 March, we will send you:
A 'Cycling UK' brand toolkit comprising:
• Full brand guidelines:
o the use of the brand;
o the tone of voice;
o associated colours, logos and fonts;
o suggested imagery to use on websites and in communications;
• Social media toolkit and sample local press release;
• Order form for marketing materials such as banners/fliers/business cards and so on which will be supplied by Cycling UK
• Information about a brand launch pack to use for your own Cycling UK celebratory events
• Information on Bike Week 2016
• Guidance on the use of the 'winged wheel' and 'wobbly wheel' logos plus the 'CTC' and 'Cyclists' Touring Club' names
The following week commencing Monday 14 March, we will host an interactive webinar to go through the brand guidelines and answer any questions you may have.
The brand will be officially launched on Tuesday 5 April 2016 so look out for a new-look website on that date. This will also be the date when we start using the brand name 'Cycling UK' in all our communications.
There will also be a special edition of the April/May edition of ‘Cycle’ magazine hitting your doormat around that time which will look at the background to choosing the new brand and what it will mean for the future of the organisation.
We hope you and your group are looking forward to using the new name, logo, fonts and colours as much as we are. We have received very positive feedback from many of our groups so far, but please don’t hesitate to get in touch if you have any concerns in the meantime.
Kind regards
Julie Rand
Member Group Coordinator


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:lol: what a joke! It is like being infiltrated and taken over by a looney fringe.

reohn2
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby reohn2 » 10 Mar 2016, 10:59am

Euskadi wrote: :lol: what a joke! It is like being infiltrated and taken over by a looney fringe.


Or group more interested in it's own(non cycling)interests :?
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Euskadi
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Euskadi » 10 Mar 2016, 11:08am

reohn2 wrote:Or group more interested in it's own(non cycling)interests :?


Yes, probably more to the point. People that have no business running the CTC either way.

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 10 Mar 2016, 11:16am

Euskadi wrote:Yes, probably more to the point. People that have no business running the CTC either way.

The rebrand is a decision taken by Council. Council are elected by the members to run CTC. The members have no business deciding who runs the club? :roll:
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

Bicycler
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Bicycler » 10 Mar 2016, 12:01pm

Here I don't think we can equate holding an election with representative democracy. What proportion of the membership votes? What proportion of the membership are even aware of the vote? How much information is communicated to your average member about the candidates? Even if elections were to be taken seriously how would we hold our representatives to account for their actions while the collective irresponsibility remains in place?

Whether true or not, the kind of coup PB alleges to have resulted in his defeat simply couldn't happen in an election with even vaguely adequate voter engagement and participation.

TonyR
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby TonyR » 10 Mar 2016, 1:58pm

Bicycler wrote:Here I don't think we can equate holding an election with representative democracy. What proportion of the membership votes? What proportion of the membership are even aware of the vote? How much information is communicated to your average member about the candidates? Even if elections were to be taken seriously how would we hold our representatives to account for their actions while the collective irresponsibility remains in place?


The vacancies on Council are advertised in Cycle and you have a month to get together the five member signatures to qualify to go on the election list. If the number of applicants is equal to or less than the number of vacancies, the applicants are appointed to Council. Otherwise it goes to a vote of the regional membership through a voting form included in the next issue of Cycle. Candidates can submit a 500 word personal statement to tell members about themselves.

So there is no reason the membership should not be aware of the vote and who the candidates are. If they choose not to vote that is exercising a democratic right that should be respected. What is not acceptable is not voting and then complaining about the outcome.

As for holding them to account, then very simply they sign up to a Code of Conduct when appointed that inter alia says

1.7. I will seek to be accountable for my actions as a trustee and Councillor of CTC and will submit myself to whatever scrutiny is appropriate.


So asking appropriate questions of your Councillors is the way to hold them to account (although be prepared for quite a few people on here taking exception to you doing so)

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 10 Mar 2016, 2:21pm

If one third of Council feels the collective decision is wrong they can use Article 11 to demand a Poll of the Whole Club :wink: .

If any individual Councillor feels strongly that they are unable to support the collective decision they could resign.
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reohn2
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby reohn2 » 10 Mar 2016, 5:39pm

Sometime democracy can be wrong,sometimes wildly so.
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manybikes
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby manybikes » 10 Mar 2016, 7:58pm

The vacancies on Council are advertised in Cycle and you have a month to get together the five member signatures to qualify to go on the election list. If the number of applicants is equal to or less than the number of vacancies, the applicants are appointed to Council


Perhaps that used to be the case but didn't the present incumbent add the stipulation that you also have to be interviewed by the CEO to determine the validity of your credentials?

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 10 Mar 2016, 8:30pm

Governance is a bit off topic but it keeps coming up so here goes ...

manybikes wrote:Perhaps that used to be the case but didn't the present incumbent add the stipulation that you also have to be interviewed by the CEO to determine the validity of your credentials?

To my knowledge, not yet and, if such changes are made the broad outline is for a Nominations Committee to interview prospective Councillors.

A governance review has been underway since October 2014, with Council setting up a Governance Review Group (GRG) at that time. My understanding would be that in spring of last year the "April Proposals" were put forward to Council by the GRG, which became the basis for a further review with final proposals going to Council in January 2016.

I believe some* proposed changes to governance will be presented to the AGM later this year.


*Some of the proposed changes to governance may be within Council's powers, others may require (or benefit from :wink: ) an AGM vote. I don't know how much of the package is being presented for endorsement.
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

manybikes
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby manybikes » 10 Mar 2016, 8:44pm

Thanks for the Gaz but I am sure that I read it somewhere not that long ago but I do not have the skills you have for finding past posts etc. Perhaps I should have kept past CYCLE mags as I used to but now I bin them after a short while.

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 10 Mar 2016, 8:51pm

It has been mentioned on the forum recently. Philip Benstead posted comments from an anonymous Councillor about the proposals: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=101766&start=15#p956697

If you want more detail you'll need to track down Cyclileaks :wink: .
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...