English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

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Bmblbzzz
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Audax67 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 7:44am
thirdcrank wrote: 12 Mar 2023, 12:14pm
A man has been rescued from the River Severn in the early hours of Sunday morning.

The incident happened at English Bridge, Shrewsbury, at around 03:13 GMT.

Shropshire Fire and Rescue Service said the man was rescued by it's water rescue technicians.

The service said they then left the casualty at around 03:40 GMT in the care of the ambulance and police, who have both been contacted.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-64931442
The missing M is as dodgy as the apostrophe. If they'd phrased it as "both of whom have been contacted" they'd probably have got it right, but "who have both been contacted" probably felt funny, if it even crossed their minds.
I think the M is not missing. Compare "I have been contacted".
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Audax67
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Audax67 »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 11:18am
Audax67 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 7:44am
thirdcrank wrote: 12 Mar 2023, 12:14pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-64931442

...The service said they then left the casualty at around 03:40 GMT in the care of the ambulance and police, who have both been contacted.
The missing M is as dodgy as the apostrophe. If they'd phrased it as "both of whom have been contacted" they'd probably have got it right, but "who have both been contacted" probably felt funny, if it even crossed their minds.
I think the M is not missing. Compare "I have been contacted".
Good point. I think my head has just been done in.
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DaveReading
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by DaveReading »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 11:18am
Audax67 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 7:44am
The missing M is as dodgy as the apostrophe. If they'd phrased it as "both of whom have been contacted" they'd probably have got it right, but "who have both been contacted" probably felt funny, if it even crossed their minds.
I think the M is not missing. Compare "I have been contacted".
Correct - "whom" would be wrong as the subject of a passive verb, which it is here.
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Audax67 wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 7:44am
thirdcrank wrote: 12 Mar 2023, 12:14pm
A man has been rescued from the River Severn in the early hours of Sunday morning.

The incident happened at English Bridge, Shrewsbury, at around 03:13 GMT.

Shropshire Fire and Rescue Service said the man was rescued by it's water rescue technicians.

The service said they then left the casualty at around 03:40 GMT in the care of the ambulance and police, who have both been contacted.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-64931442
The missing M is as dodgy as the apostrophe. If they'd phrased it as "both of whom have been contacted" they'd probably have got it right, but "who have both been contacted" probably felt funny, if it even crossed their minds.
They've reworded the article!

: - )

Jonathan
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Paulatic »

Jdsk wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 2:46pm [
They've reworded the article!

: - )

Jonathan
Great, a dropped M was probably the least of my concerns.
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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Do we want to clear up both of who/whom while we're at it?

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 2:46pm
They've reworded the article!
I really don't know what to make of that.
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Has the negative meaning of fulsome left the building?

Jonathan
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 3:33pm Has the negative meaning of fulsome left the building?
relate to
Jonathan
I've checked my Fourth edition of Fowler and Butterfield's entry is too long to quote here.

I think I'll contact the Shropshire Fire and Rescue Service's duty greengrocer to see if they can mobilise the Water Rescue Technicians

(NB - I think that your post originally referred to "sinking without trace." That's why my reply seems not to what it says now.)
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

It did, but it shouldn't have. Because we have literature recording its previous usage.

Jonathan
DaveReading
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by DaveReading »

Jdsk wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 3:01pm Do we want to clear up both of who/whom while we're at it?

Jonathan
Clue: "both of us" or "both of we" ?
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

DaveReading wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 4:26pm
Jdsk wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 3:01pm Do we want to clear up both of who/whom while we're at it?
Clue: "both of us" or "both of we" ?
: - )

Brilliant method, isn't it?

Jonathan
Bmblbzzz
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Bmblbzzz »

thirdcrank wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 3:55pm
Jdsk wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 3:33pm Has the negative meaning of fulsome left the building?
relate to
Jonathan
I've checked my Fourth edition of Fowler and Butterfield's entry is too long to quote here.

I think I'll contact the Shropshire Fire and Rescue Service's duty greengrocer to see if they can mobilise the Water Rescue Technicians

(NB - I think that your post originally referred to "sinking without trace." That's why my reply seems not to what it says now.)
fulsome. Though the OED recognizes only the pronunciation fŭl-, fool- is now general.
That's the entire entry in the second edition, 1965 reprinted 1988.
thirdcrank
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

My first edition of Fowler only has
fulsome The OED recognises only the pronunciation fŭl (not fool-)


The latter having a character tie (?) over the oo which I lack the skill or inclination to reproduce there)
Bmblbzzz
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Bmblbzzz »

thirdcrank wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 11:42am My first edition of Fowler only has
fulsome The OED recognises only the pronunciation fŭl (not fool-)


The latter having a character tie (?) over the oo which I lack the skill or inclination to reproduce there)
It's like that but upside down. I also couldn't work out how to reproduce it here.
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