English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 2 Apr 2022, 7:30pm(Using the capital T to empathise of course)
Skitt's Law strikes?

: - )

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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by simonineaston »

..and while we're talking about articles, the modern trend in spoken English, to eschew the use of an, when the noun it precedes starts with a vowel sound needs to be nipped in the bud. I suggest 30 days hard labour for transgressors - or perhaps that excellent and traditional deterrent of hanging, drawing and quartering. In fact, death is too good for them...
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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

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simonineaston wrote: 2 Apr 2022, 7:57pm ..and while we're talking about articles, the modern trend in spoken English, to eschew the use of an, when the noun it precedes starts with a vowel sound needs to be nipped in the bud.
Those commas don't work for me. What's the subject noun phrase?

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simonineaston
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by simonineaston »

Quite right! So, in my mind, the phrase 'the modern trend in spoken English' was preceded by the phrase, what does my head in is, in order to give this complete sentance: What does my head in is the modern trend in spoken English to eschew the use of an...
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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

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: - )

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Mick F
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mick F »

Sport report at the end of the 6 o’clock news this evening.

“.......where a glass bottle hit a A Celtic staff member on the head”
Not ......... “ ‘where a glass bottle his a Celtic staff member on the head”

Further along the sport report ........
“ ............... in The women’s race”

Not ............ “ in the women’s race”

“ .......... in A record time”
Not ..........“ in a record time”




etc etc etc.

Drives me nuts! :evil:
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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 6:43pmFurther along the sport report ........
“ ............... in The women’s race”

Not ............ “ in the women’s race”
When there are two pronunciations of the same spelling it isn't clear which you mean if you differentiate them by capitalisation.

If you don't want to use a phonetic alphabet I suggest something like:

the (as in he) and the as in huh.

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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by mattheus »

Jdsk wrote: 2 Apr 2022, 11:56am
simonineaston wrote: 2 Apr 2022, 11:53amHowever, I do wish that lazy journalists could try a little bit harder to find a word or phrase that's an improvement on the meaningless twaddle that is "double-down" - what does it even mean?? It's everywhere! Useless!!
It's a gambling term. Has a specific meaning in blackjack but the concept applies in many other games.

Jonathan
I would also say it's meaning is perfectly clear in other contexts. At least, every time that I have seen/heard it ...
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

mattheus wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 7:13pm
Jdsk wrote: 2 Apr 2022, 11:56am
simonineaston wrote: 2 Apr 2022, 11:53amHowever, I do wish that lazy journalists could try a little bit harder to find a word or phrase that's an improvement on the meaningless twaddle that is "double-down" - what does it even mean?? It's everywhere! Useless!!
It's a gambling term. Has a specific meaning in blackjack but the concept applies in many other games.
I would also say it's meaning is perfectly clear in other contexts. At least, every time that I have seen/heard it
Yes.

And it has the added payload of suggesting the analogy of a game for the particular context in which it is used.

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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Paulatic »

Jdsk wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 6:49pm [quote="Mick F" post_id=<a href="tel:1684804">1684804</a> time=<a href="tel:1649007807">1649007807</a> user_id=109]Further along the sport report ........
“ ............... in The women’s race”

Not ............ “ in the women’s race”
When there are two pronunciations of the same spelling it isn't clear which you mean if you differentiate them by capitalisation.

Jonathan
[/quote]
Yet if I wrote Polish or polish , Reading or reading you’d know exactly how to pronounce it.

I think Mick is showing the emphasis of the speaker by using a capital rather than the pronunciation. Well that’s my understanding . :D

Edit: no idea why that formatting shows as it does. Looks fine in edit mode.
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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Paulatic wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 7:18pm
Jdsk wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 6:49pm
Mick F wrote:Further along the sport report ........
“ ............... in The women’s race”

Not ............ “ in the women’s race”
When there are two pronunciations of the same spelling it isn't clear which you mean if you differentiate them by capitalisation.
Yet if I wrote Polish or polish , Reading or reading you’d know exactly how to pronounce it.
That's because the capitalisation of Polish shows the adjective of a proper noun, Poland (or similar), and we deduce the pronunciation from that. Ditto Reading. That doesn't work for the two pronunciations of the and a, because there is no associated proper noun.

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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Paulatic wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 7:18pmYet if I wrote Polish or polish , Reading or reading you’d know exactly how to pronounce it.
I wouldn't if it were at the start of a sentence.

Reading is boring.

Q: Which vodka would you like? Or do you want the stuff to make the woodwork shiny?
A: Polish, please.


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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Paulatic »

Jdsk wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 7:30pm
Paulatic wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 7:18pmYet if I wrote Polish or polish , Reading or reading you’d know exactly how to pronounce it.
I wouldn't if it were at the start of a sentence.

Reading is boring.

Q: Which vodka would you like? Or do you want the stuff to make the woodwork shiny?
A: Polish, please.


Jonathan
It does because we read it in context. If we are discussing attributes of towns id read it correctly. I’d be lost for a while until I realise you’ve switched to discussing libraries.
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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Paulatic wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 8:20pm
Jdsk wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 7:30pm
Paulatic wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 7:18pmYet if I wrote Polish or polish , Reading or reading you’d know exactly how to pronounce it.
I wouldn't if it were at the start of a sentence.

Reading is boring.

Q: Which vodka would you like? Or do you want the stuff to make the woodwork shiny?
A: Polish, please.
It does because we read it in context. If we are discussing attributes of towns id read it correctly. I’d be lost for a while until I realise you’ve switched to discussing libraries.
Of course context matters.

But the problem under consideration here is how to show in text the two pronunciations of a and the. Context isn't usually going to work for that, because the alternatives differ only in emphasis and either would work in the context.

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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Audax67 »

Mick F wrote: 3 Apr 2022, 6:43pm Sport report at the end of the 6 o’clock news this evening.

“.......where a glass bottle hit a A Celtic staff member on the head”
Not ......... “ ‘where a glass bottle his a Celtic staff member on the head”

...
Sports reporters are supposed to mangle grammar and pronunciation: they'd probably be fired if they didn't.

What annoys me is the Graun's nasty habit of ending the headline of "live" sports events with an exclamation mark! Be still, my beating heart.
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