English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 2:28pmAll spoken language could be said to have potential for confusion.
And at least people CAN say A,B,C etc.
But some have much more potential than others. That's why phonetic alphabets are used when safety matters, not the ordinary English alphabet.

Jonathan

PS: And there's a letter in the standard alphabet with a pronunciation that provides lot of opportunity to despise other people...
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

A critical incident involving the use of a phonetic alphabet:
https://associationofanaesthetists-publ ... anae.13293

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

I've occasionally wondered why the NATO alphabet is also called the phonetic alphabet. This is written in what I think of as a phonetic alphabet, in my ignorance
/ˈæktʃuəl/
(FWIW, I'm a dab hand at the foxtrot oscar stuff)
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 3:06pm I've occasionally wondered why the NATO alphabet is also called the phonetic alphabet.
Would it help to know that its official name is International Radiotelephony Spelling Alphabet?

; - )

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 3:11pm
thirdcrank wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 3:06pm I've occasionally wondered why the NATO alphabet is also called the phonetic alphabet.
Would it help to know that its official name is International Radiotelephony Spelling Alphabet?

; - )

Jonathan
Right. In future, I'll wonder (very occasionally) why it's not referred to by its correct title: "The International Radiotelephony Spelling Alphabet."
==================================
PS After reading your linked piece about confusion in finding hospital wards etc., I'll suggest that the signage is left in the hands of the same type of dolt responsible for road signs. The MO is to design the signs then to ask somebody who knows the way what they think. They lack the wit to try them out on somebody who doesn't know the way. (Source = bitter experience of trying to navigate hospitals.)
PDQ Mobile
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 2:33pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 2:28pmAll spoken language could be said to have potential for confusion.
And at least people CAN say A,B,C etc.
But some have much more potential than others. That's why phonetic alphabets are used when safety matters, not the ordinary English alphabet.

Jonathan

PS: And there's a letter in the standard alphabet with a pronunciation that provides lot of opportunity to despise other people...
All languages are full of homophones.
But context mostly resolves it.

Call it Covid 1,2,3 if you prefer, and write them with Roman numerals. :wink:
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 4:23pm
Jdsk wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 2:33pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 2:28pmAll spoken language could be said to have potential for confusion.
And at least people CAN say A,B,C etc.
But some have much more potential than others. That's why phonetic alphabets are used when safety matters, not the ordinary English alphabet.
All languages are full of homophones.
But context mostly resolves it.
It often does in common parlance. But elements picked from lists are very different because they are inherently interchangeable. (Shannon probability/information stuff.)

And the issue was confusability rather than homophony. Dee and Ee aren't homophones but they're highly confusable, and that's before we get to Dee / Tee or Bee / Pee.

Jonathan
Bmblbzzz
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Bmblbzzz »

thirdcrank wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 3:06pm I've occasionally wondered why the NATO alphabet is also called the phonetic alphabet. This is written in what I think of as a phonetic alphabet, in my ignorance
/ˈæktʃuəl/
(FWIW, I'm a dab hand at the foxtrot oscar stuff)
Nah, that's Indian Pale Ale.
thirdcrank
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

Over my head, I fear.

Twice recently I've seen Dark IPA on sale in boozers and my query went over the barperson's head, too.
PDQ Mobile
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 4:36pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 4:23pm
Jdsk wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 2:33pm
But some have much more potential than others. That's why phonetic alphabets are used when safety matters, not the ordinary English alphabet.
All languages are full of homophones.
But context mostly resolves it.
It often does in common parlance. But elements picked from lists are very different because they are inherently interchangeable. (Shannon probability/information stuff.)

And the issue was confusability rather than homophony. Dee and Ee aren't homophones but they're highly confusable, and that's before we get to Dee / Tee or Bee / Pee.

Jonathan
So start at the other end if YOU find it confusing.
; Z,X,Y.
10, 20,30.
A simple progression.

Om(n)icron is just too long and has no simple handle for us simple folk.

The world is too filled with such excess contortions.
It'll be the end of us, (over complicating the simple, not Covid, I hope :shock:

Keep it simple, keep it safe.
That's best.
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Mick F
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mick F »

thirdcrank wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 3:06pm I've occasionally wondered why the NATO alphabet is also called the phonetic alphabet.
It's basically that the sender and the receiver can hear the numbers as words, and not get them wrong, but it's not phonetic in the way I understand phonics.

Alpha
Bravo
Charlie
Delta
Echo
Foxtrot
Golf
Hotel
India
Juliet
Kilo
Lima
Mike
November
Oscar
Papa
Quebec
Romeo
Sierra
Tango
Uniform
Victor
Whiskey
X-Ray
Yankee
Zulu
Mick F. Cornwall
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Mick F
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mick F »

PS
Call-sign of one of my ships was Golf Foxtrot Yankee Alfa.
GFYA
Dunno why I remember that call-sign of all the other ships I had. Seems to flow off the tongue/brain easier maybe.

HMS Gurkha.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Gurkha_(F122)
Mick F. Cornwall
DaveReading
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by DaveReading »

thirdcrank wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 6:06pmTwice recently I've seen Dark IPA on sale in boozers and my query went over the barperson's head, too.
They probably didn't know what you meant when you asked for a whiter shade of pale ale.
DaveReading
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by DaveReading »

Mick F wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 6:57pm It's basically that the sender and the receiver can hear the numbers as words, and not get them wrong, but it's not phonetic in the way I understand phonics.

Alpha
Bravo
Charlie
Delta
Echo
Foxtrot
Golf
Hotel
India
Juliet
Kilo
Lima
Mike
November
Oscar
Papa
Quebec
Romeo
Sierra
Tango
Uniform
Victor
Whiskey
X-Ray
Yankee
Zulu
Or, for those with longer memories:

Able
Baker
Charlie
Dog
Easy
Fox
George
How
Item
Jig
King
Love
Mike
Nan
Oboe
Peter
Queen
Roger
Sugar
Tare
Uncle
Victor
William
Xray
Yoke
Zebra
thirdcrank
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

... It's basically that the sender and the receiver can hear the numbers as words ...
I thought that alphabet was so that the receiver could hear the letters as words. There is a system for clear transmission of numbers which seems to be less widely-known. The numbers are pretty much the English form but with distinctive pronunciation
zero, wun, too, three, forwer, fife, six, seven, eight, niner, wun-zero etc.
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