Does Tubeless tyres have a place on road bikes?

[freiston]

Hi tim-b, thanks for the explanation - I had failed to appreciate the difference between tubs and tubeless. I also now realise that my post above might have been misleading - I moved [from single-wall steel rims and awful tyres] to the Mavic rim & Elan tyres when the racers were moving to tubs. Not just because of limited funds (which is a significant consideration) but also because of preference, I'll be sticking with tyres and tubes too .

[Keezx]

As long as the current tubeless setups need fluids to seal I'm not even tempted to try it, as I have really no problems with inner tubes and lower pressures.
The system needs improvements of the rim-tyre design urgently to become a real alternative for the conventional setup.
As we speak I run 25 mm clinchers on 18C rims with 5,5-5 Bar (or 6,5-5 on smooth roads), no pinch flats ever and smooth enough for me.
Punctures average at 1 a 2 per year (av. 10000 km/y)

[Samuel D]

I agree with Keezx. The sealant is a mess, mounting tyres is difficult and involves compatibility problems with the rims (there are many stories of multiple layers of tape being required, special gadgets to help seat the tyre, etc.), and the tyres offer no performance advantage over regular clinchers and tubes. Meanwhile, all of it costs a lot, especially for the initial conversion.

Since punctures are not a significant problem for me, even with the lightweight tyres I prefer, I don’t see the point in putting up with the hassle of a tubeless setup.

However, as with other innovations, I worry that the move to tubeless will eventually limit the availability of the tubes and tyres that I like. At the very least, the relentless fragmentation of the cycling ecosystem leads to higher costs everywhere.

[andrewjoseph]

Hi Andrew,

Once a week/Fortnight? Thats not soo bad!

How much mileage were you doing each week though? long runs or commuting trips? etc

i don't commute, i don't do huge distances on mtb or road but i ride 3-5 times a week. Average mtb ride is about 25km but could be 10 or 40. avg road is about 35 but between 25 and 80km.

avg total is around 120 km /week. i'm trying to up it to 150km/week

[AlanW]

At the risk of sounding like I am contradicting myself, but yes I can see the point of tubeless tyres with sealant. Like many others, I ride near enough all year round, and as I’m sure many people have experienced, there is nothing worse than getting a puncture in the dark when it raining or even when you just happen to be running late on the way to work!

So for those couple reasons alone, having a tyre with sealant makes every bit of logical sense, why would it not?

Yes I agree that if you have to start converting normal wheels over to tubeless then it can get expensive. But most factory built are tubeless compatible and they will also come with the necessary tubeless valves. Furthermore, tubeless tyres are not that more expensive than normal tyres, in fact if you shop around you’ll find some for the same sort of cost. So the only real outlay is a bottle of liquid Latex, Stans No Tubes for example.

But then of course you have factor in the installation time, and also the periodical checking of the sealant levels. Remembering that if you keep adding 2oz of liquid Latex you are constantly adding weight to that rotating mass. So really once that Latex has “gone off” as per my photo above, you really need to remove the tyre and scrap it all off before adding new, so more maintenance time to factor in.

Trust me, it really was with a heavy heart that I decided to revert back to inner tubes.

I guess it all depends on what price (price being measured in time not money) you are prepared to pay for that peace of mind not to suffer a puncture in the dark?

It was the split rear tyre that finished it for me, but in truth it was probably a remote one off, or at least not a very common catastrophic failure that could not be repaired by the side of the road. And adding to that on the flip side, I have also had the odd occasion when a sidewall on a normal tubed GP4000S tyre has blown, which also resulted in having to be picked up by the wife…..so swings and roundabouts I guess?

[Brucey]

The use of sealant is by no means confined to the realms of tubeless tyres. It can be 'installed' inside ordinary inner tubes, and if you don't like that idea, there's nothing to stop you from carrying a small aerosol of sealant around and using that to get you home if you get a puncture at an inconvenient time.

When you come to make a proper repair, the sealant is pretty much confined to the tube and a small part of the cover, so it is somewhat easier to deal with.

BTW tubeless tyres are often a little heavier than ordinary ones. I personally hope that tubeless does not become the norm, because anyone using tubed tyres may be forced into using a heavier, worse-riding arrangement if all they can buy is tubeless tyres that then have tubes in them.

Another factor not yet mentioned is that of spokes and rim tapes. Should you break a spoke within the nipple, the rim tape has to come off in order for the spoke and nipple to be replaced. This is a very significantly greater PITA with most tubeless setups. The exception to this is those wheels where you can't easily buy spare spokes... thus as a scheme it doesn't really appeal much.

cheers

[AlanW]

Should you break a spoke within the nipple, the rim tape has to come off in order for the spoke and nipple to be replaced. This is a very significantly greater PITA with most tubeless setups. The exception to this is those wheels where you can't easily buy spare spokes... thus as a scheme it doesn't really appeal much.

cheers

Its a good point, however, not if you are using tubeless specific rims.

And at the risk of adding a kiss of death to my ride home later on, in my experience with modern factory built wheels the chances of getting a broken spoke these days are pretty remote.

[andrewjoseph]

i got the schwalbe one tyres because they claim they are compatible with clincher rims and don't need tubeless specific rims.

i don't race, or commute so the time issue of sorting out a problem with a tubeless tyre/rim is less of an issue.

i have modified my setup though, due to having a problem during the 'cardiff-roubaix' sportive last august. i hit a deep, sharp sided pothole at speed and got pinch punctures to the front tyre. (and i'd been feeling so smug passing a dozen or so other riders with punctures. )

due to my cheap setup of using electrical tape to seal the rim bed ( i couldn't get hold of tubeless tape easily and it seemed a good idea at the time), the inner tubes i tried to use kept getting punctured by the tape edges, i went through 4 and had to abandon. the tyre wouldn't seal properly using the tubeless set up as i had damaged the rim so badly. I've replaced the rim and put a new tyre on and it's back to a nice smooth ride.

i'm sticking to tubeless if i can, despite having punctures and slashes. the ride is better and hopefully i can tour on the same tyres and they should last longer than tubes clinchers. i now have proper tubeless rim tape in all my rims, so should i need to use a tube during a ride it should inflate properly.

i also make sure i carry a cloth to clean the latex from my hands. it's the same one i use to clean the chain lube from my fingers.

[RickH]

Hi tim-b, thanks for the explanation - I had failed to appreciate the difference between tubs and tubeless. I also now realise that my post above might have been misleading - I moved [from single-wall steel rims and awful tyres] to the Mavic rim & Elan tyres when the racers were moving to tubs. Not just because of limited funds (which is a significant consideration) but also because of preference, I'll be sticking with tyres and tubes too .

Just to muddy the waters still further, back in the early 80s I dabbled with tubs on my road bike & had some tubeless tubs! Possibly Vredestein?

They were fairly robust as they were intended for training. You repaired punctures with a tube of glue/sealant that had a hollow needle on the end & you injected a blob in through any hole then just pumped the tyre up again.

Rick

[AlanW]

.....back in the early 80s I dabbled with tubs on my road bike & had some tubeless tubs! Possibly Vredestein?

Really.....not that I doubt what you are saying, but I must admit that I have heard or seen anything like that back then??

[Brucey]

yeah, I remember those; never used them though.

If you think of almost any random combination of bicycle technologies, it is almost certain that someone has 'invented it' at some point and tried to market it.

cheers

[tykeboy2003]

If they have a place I would suggest it's the wheels.

Forgive me if somebody else has beaten me to it....

[PhilWhitehurst]

Think of the ride from your best racing tyres then combine that with the puncture protection of marathon pluses. Tubeless is great, 20,000 miles no punctures and sublime riding. Road coming up to 2 years, all year round riding. My MTB tubeless are 9 years with one puncture when log got wedged in bike.