Can I convert a Genesis Day One Alfine 8 to single speed?

[John_S]

Hello All,

I've managed to get myself a 2014 Genesis Day One Alfine 8 and I've got a plan to use it in two different configurations. However prior to this I've only ever owned two MTBs followed by a Hybrid bike and they have been completely stock bikes as they come off the peg from the shop. Therefore unfortunately I've not got any experience of either building a bike from the frame up or of changing any major components.

Although I could use this Day One Alfine as it is all year around I've also just got a nagging wish to try a single speed bike but my wife would never let me buy another bike at the moment and so I'm wondering if I can use this one in two different configurations? As background 99% of this bikes use will be for my 25 mile round trip daily all weathers commute. However I live in East Anglia and it's flat as a pancake so there's no hills, other than a couple of small gradients, to contend with on my route to and from work.

My plan is to use the bike in it's current and standard guise with the Alfine 8 from say late spring, through summer and early autumn. Then I'd use it in single speed set up during the worst of the winter months when for example lots of salt has been put on the roads. I know that this isn't strictly necessary because I could leave the bike with the Alfine 8 all through the winter so this might seem like a mad/nonsense plan but it's something that I'd like to try and so any advice/tips on whether this is feasible and if so what I'd need to do would be greatly appreciated.

My idea is to remove the current wheels when it gets to winter and have new wheels ready for the single speed set up. With respect to when I run the bike as a single speed set up I'd like to have a front wheel with a hub dynamo. If I do this I'm wondering what I'd need and if it's a simple as getting the following:-

* new wheels (I have a question about what to go for below);
* a new hub for the rear wheel;
* a new sprocket for the back wheel/hub;
* a hub dynamo for the front wheel;
* Tools?

So therefore I'd leave everything else the same, e.g. chainring (which I think is 40T), chain, bottom bracket etc.

New Wheels
In respect of new wheels I'd want something fairly tough, durable and long lasting if possible. I wondered if I should go for a wheel with 32 or 36 spokes and also the Day One has disc brakes so I guess that any wheels would need to be disc specific? Any recommendations would great!

New rear wheel hub
Should I be looking at something like the White Industries ENO hub (see link below) and if so would I need the Eccentric one or the Standard one? I must admit this is one stage where I'm a bit lost/clueless because I think that if understand correctly that frames/hubs are different widths? If this is the case I have no idea what the width of the frame is or the width of the current Shimano Alfine 8 hub.

http://www.whiteind.com/eno

A new sprocket for the rear wheel
Should I be considering something like this White Industries ENO Freewheel (link below)? If I should be thinking about this how on earth to I begging to figure out what number of teeth I'd need to get on the freewheel? As I mentioned my daily commute is pretty flat, baring a handful of small hills, and so I guess I'd need something that is ok on the flat, up the small hills and still alright when the winter winds are blowing a gale straight into my face at the end of a day at work. I think that the current chainring is 40T.

http://www.whiteind.com/new-page

A hub dynamo for the front wheel

I'd been thinking about something from Shimano such as one of these:-

Shimano Alfine DH-S501 I thought about this one because it fits in with the Alfine group set on the bike however I'm not sure if this works with disc brakes. http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/shimano-alfine-dh-s501-hub-dynamo/aid:333819

Therefore maybe this one would work:-

Shimano DH-3D80 Disc http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/shimano-dh-3d80-disc-hub-dynamo/aid:520202

I'm not sure whether either of the above would be a good idea or not because one thing I'm not sure about is their compatibility with the bikes current cable operated Hayes CX Expert Mechanical disc brakes. The reason I'm not sure is because do the Shimano hubs use a centre lock system whereas I think that the current Hayes disc brakes are 6 bolt. In the long run I'm wondering whether or the current mechanical/ cable disc brakes could be improved upon with say something like the TRP Hylex hydraulic disc brakes ( http://www.trpbrakes.com/category.php?productid=1207&catid=206 ) but that will be something for a later date.

Although at present with the Hayes disc brakes maybe I could use an adapter like this?

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shimano/6-bolt-to-centre-lock-hub-adapter-ec011451

Tools
If I undertake the above would anyone know what tools I might need to undertake this job because I've not really got any tools so far. However with respect to the wheel I don't really want to build the wheel myself. Not that it's an excuse but I've got two young kids at home and so I don't get much if any time to tinker with my bike. Therefore I'd like to buy the wheels and if I could get them built/complete from someone then great but if not then I guess I can buy all of the components for the wheel and ask a LBS to build it up.

If I do this then my plan would be to leave the bar end shifter in place (if this is ok?) whilst the bike is being run as a single speed so as to avoid the need to take the bar tape and gear cable off. Therefore the end of the gear cable that's normally connected to the Alfine IGH would be disconnected/ exposed to the elements. Therefore I'd need to think of a way to protect it from the elements and any thoughts/good ideas would be great.

If I've forgotten any things/steps that I'd need to do for this plan to work any guidance will be really helpful.

I'm sorry for the long post and thank you in advance for any thoughts and suggestions because I'm a complete novice when it comes to changing anything on the bike so all help will be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

John

p.s. you might already know the bike but if not it's this one:-

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/159666/products/genesis-day-one-alfine-8-2014-road-bike.aspx

[Brucey]

alfine hub ought to be 135mm wide. You can buy 135mm width hubs for singlespeed use with and without disc mountings. If you are running fixed gear you in theory don't need a rear brake at all, but I feel happier with two brake levers rather than one.

Whatever chain tensioning method is used at present will also work with a single freewheel but if you want to run fixed gear you need to move the wheel or the BB in the frame to tension the chain; I forget what is standard on the Day One. (edit- the rear wheel slides in the dropouts).

I'd suggest 36h front and rear or 32f/36r, whatever rims you fancy more or less; the main factor for me would be that they don't cost a fortune to replace if you bend one.

An alfine hub generator should work with a centrelock disc fitting. If in doubt check the tech specs for the hub. You can buy a 32h Alfine hub generator for less than £50 from SJS.

You need to worry about gearing and chainline. For gearing I'd suggest a 16t or 15t sprocket with your 40T chainring.

The main reason for running SS in the winter is that all the gear parts don't get filled with crud. This being the case, leaving the shifter on the bike seems a bit daft to me.

For tools, get a basic toolkit (eg the one that they sell in aldi) and then supplement it as necessary with other tools.

cheers

[Samuel D]

Most of these questions are beyond me, but I can tackle this one:

A new sprocket for the rear wheel
Should I be considering something like this White Industries ENO Freewheel (link below)? If I should be thinking about this how on earth to I begging to figure out what number of teeth I'd need to get on the freewheel?

The gear ratios of the 8-speed Alfine hubs are:

1st—0.527
2nd—0.644
3rd—0.748
4th—0.851
5th—exactly 1
6th—1.223
7th—1.419
8th—1.615

The specification for your bicycle (at the link you provided) says it has a 40T chainring and 20T rear sprocket, a ratio of 2, so we know that one crank revolution produces the following wheel revolutions in each gear:

1st—1.054
2nd—1.288
3rd—1.496
4th—1.702
5th—exactly 2
6th—2.446
7th—2.838
8th—3.230

So, while riding, observe which of your current gears you would most like as a single gear. Match it to the second list of ratios above, then divide the wheel revolutions for that gear (e.g. 2.446 if you like 6th) into 40T to get your ideal rear sprocket size (16T in this case).

If you’d like your single gear to be in between two of your existing gears, adjust accordingly. Do likewise if you get a non-integer answer when you divide 40T by your preferred ratio (e.g. 40/2.446 is actually about 16.4, not 16 exactly).

[Samuel D]

In fact, here’s the list of single-speed rear sprocket sizes equivalent to your current setup, assuming you retain the 40T chainring:

1st—38T
2nd—31T
3rd—27T
4th—24T
5th—20T
6th—16T
7th—14T
8th—12T

[Freddie]

For the money you'd spend, could you not get a winter hack and save yourself the trouble of removing bits and pieces every winter and have the benefit of a spare bike, if anything goes wrong with the first.

[John_S]

Hi Brucey,

Thanks for all of the advice.

Now I know that the Alfine Hub will be 135mm I'll search for more options of single speed hubs in that size. Reading about the White Industries ENO Hub it does say that you can get it in 135mm. Also having read a bit more about that hub I think that it would be the standard version that I'd need to go with the Genesis Day One frame which has horizontal dropouts. I think that for now my plan is to run it it single speed with a freewheel but depending on how that goes I might at some point in the future try fixed but not just yet.

Thanks for the tips in respect of spoke count and I've seen that the W.I. ENO hub comes in either 32H or 36H but I'll have to see what other hubs I can find to compare as well. In terms of weight that the bike will carry I only use a rack top bag with my work stuff in so that's not too heavy and I'm around 11 stone so fingers crossed that's not too much for the bike meaning hopefully I'd be ok with either a 32 or 36 spoke wheel. I just want something that's fairly durable and up to the challenge of the pot holed roads that we have. However your tip about getting something which isn't too expensive to replace if it does get bent is a good one. Cheers for the tips about the hub generator and I'll take a look at the SJS website.

Following your message about chainline sorry to ask but how do I go about ensuring that the freewheel is in the right place to achieve the correct chainline? In respect to chainline am I right in guessing that I'd be trying to replicate the same chainline that already exists on the bike with the Alfine hub in place?

In respect of gearing thanks for the advice. I've been looking back at some of the previous Genesis Day One Disc single speed bikes that were sold and the 2014 model had a 40T chainring with an 18T freewheel, the 2015 model had a 46T chainring with an 18T freewheel and the 2016 model has a 42T chainring and a 17T freewheel. Also looking at their single speed road bike the Flyer the 2014 & 2015 models had a 46T chainring with an 18T freewheel whereas the 2016 model has a 42T chainring with a 17T freewheel.

If I did use a smaller freewheel of say 15T or 16T, compared to the current 20T, I'm guessing that the new freewheel would be slightly smaller. On this point is only adjustment that I'd be likely to have to make would be to have the wheel set ever so slightly further back in the horizontal dropouts to achieve the correct chain tension or is there more to this that I don't know about?

Reading your message that's a very good point about keeping the gear parts out of the way during the winter and not wanting to let them get covered in crud. The only reason I'd thought about leaving the gear cable there is because I thought that I'd need to remove the bar tape in order to get the gear cable off the bike and protect it by keeping it off over the winter. However the bar tape doesn't need replacing at this time because its in good condition so I thought that taking it off would be a waste and in addition I've never changed bar tape so didn't want to rush to do this. However thinking about it some more I wonder if it would be possible just to remove the gear cable leaving the gear cable outer in place and say sealing the end of the outer somehow or am I being stupid and this wouldn't work?

I've also just had a thought with respect to the new parts / components that I might need to buy and should I consider buying new disc brake rotors to attach to the new hubs or would it be best/easier just to take the rotors off the current hub and swap them over when I change to the single speed rear wheel and dynamo hub front wheel for winter?


Hi Samuel D,

Many thanks of both of your posts which are very helpful and much appreciated!

I think that I need to try doing a few rides sticking to one gear just to see which I think is the best suited to my regular commute. Just thinking about the range of gears that I use over my current commute I never use either 1st or 2nd and it's rare that I'd use 3rd. I might use 4th a bit on what counts for a hill in East Anglia and then I'd vary between 5th, 6th and 7th mainly depending on gradient, volume of traffic plus the speed and direction of the wind. I use 8th as well on the downhill sections. Reading the ratios that you've kindly sent in your message I'm wondering if paring my 40T chainring with either a 15 or 16T freewheel might be the right way to go which would be in line with what Brucey has said as well.


Hi Freddie,

Thanks for your message and it's a good shout that it may well be cheaper to get a winter hack instead of this plan of changing components. However due to space considerations (or a lack of it at home) I've been left in no doubt that my wife is putting her foot down and saying no to another bike. Therefore I'm afraid that they'll be no N+1 for me at the moment unless in the future I can change her mind. Despite this she seems ok with the idea of me having a new set of wheels for a single speed set up with the same frame because it's not a whole new bike.


Thanks to everyone for their help.

Cheers,

John

[Brucey]

centerlock rotors only fit centrelock hubs but you can get adaptors to fit 6-bolt discs to centrelock hubs.

Personally I'd keep the discs with the wheels rather than swap them about.

Sheldon Brown has a nice page on chainline you should look at.

You should keep a chain for the SS setup and a different one for the IGH; they will need to be different lengths and each will wear to match its sprocket anyway. Swapping slightly worn chains on and off different sprockets just leads to trouble.

If you want to fine-tune the gearing, consider getting (say) a 17T freewheel and a choice of one or two different chainrings that fit your chainset. I suggested a 16T freewheel because it is an easy size to find and 40/16 is a sensible sized gear for road/commuting on the flat; it won't suit everyone and you won't find out what suits you until you try something and see.

I like white industries hubs but they are often stoopid-expensive vs quite workable alternatives, where they are available. I would probably only buy an eno hub if I needed the eccentric version.

If all you want is a hub that will accept a screw-on freewheel and a disc brake, one way of achieving this is to get a double-sided hub (not that easy in 135mm oln BTW) and to fit this threaded disc adaptor

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dt-swiss-arai-to-disc-brake-adapter-for-140-mm-oln-98-td-prod29105

to one side. Note that a certain amount of jiggery-pokery (and extra spacers etc) will doubtless be required to get the disc to line up with the caliper.

cheers

[John_S]

Hi Brucey,

Thanks again for the tips and advice and I'll take a look at the Sheldon Brown advice about chainline.

I'll now add some things to the list of components to buy including looking at some rotors for the current Hayes disc brakes.

Reading what you say about gearing and recommending getting one or two chainrings where should I start with thinking about what type & size of chainring to get? When I started to think about this I was working on the assumption that I'd just keep the current chainring which is why I was working from the existing 40T and then the advice from you and Samuel D on which single speed rear sprocket size to choose. If I got a chainring with more teeth then presumably I'd need to rethink the rear sprocket size? The stock off the peg single speed bikes sold by Genesis (Flyer and Day One Disc) have in recent years had both 46T and 42T chainrings and would there be any benefit to having a larger chainring than the 40T or is it a case of whether you have say a 40T, 42T or 46T chainring the difference is largely irrelevant as long as you pair it with an appropriate sized rear sprocket?

Also how would I know what chainrings would fit my chainset? At this stage I'll apologise for my lack of technical knowledge because I've never taken on changing bike components before. Is there a difference between a chainset and a crankset and would my current Genesis Day One in its standard guise have a chainset or crankset (if there is a difference between the two)? Am I right in thinking that the crank arms will come apart from the chainring if I can get the right tool to do the job?

Back to the subject of the rear sprocket and I have just spotted that White Industries make a version of their ENO Freewheel that comes with two rear sprockets which is available in 16/18t plus 17/19t versions and getting one of these might offer me versatility and options because I'm new to riding a single speed. However as you've rightly pointed out the White Industries stuff is really expensive and so it's off putting from that perspective. If I did go for one of these rear freewheels with two sprockets I did make me wonder if this would also have an impact on chain line. http://www.whiteind.com/new-page

With respect to a new chain do I have a choice between getting a 1/8 or 3/32 chain and is it best to pick a 1/8 chain because it'll be wider so it'll also be stronger? According to the bits I've read about the 2014 Day One Genesis Alfine 8 I think that the stock KMC chain is 3/32 because it states the following on websites that sell/sold the bike "Chainset - Driveline TK-13 40T (1/2 x 3/32")".

Thanks for the advice that there perfectly good and cheaper hubs available that the W.I. ENO hub. I've just searched "135mm single speed hub" and it's brought up some options from DMR, Hope, Phil Wood, Chris King (but these seem even more expensive than the W.I. ENO) and Surly so I'll have to try and read some reviews to see what people recommend.

Whilst thinking about changing so many components I'm also wondering if I should consider changing the bottom bracket? Just every so often when I've ridden the bike there's a bit of a spongy feeling as if there's a bit of resistance in the bottom bracket (sorry if this isn't the best technical description). As standard I think that the bike has come with a TH BB-7420ST Cartridge (68 x 110mm) bottom bracket. When looking up this BB I've seen people recommend a Shimano UN55 to replace it but I don't know anything about BB's so I don't know if this would help solve the problem or not. Also I had a thought/question from having been looking at my current BB. This is from a non technical standpoint but just visually my current BB and the UN55 seem to look a bit more exposed to the elements than some other BB's. I'm thinking of say a Shimano Ultegra BB (and I understand that this BB might not necessarily be right for my bike but) whereby it seems from a visual perspective that there's more of a protective casing ay both ends of the BB when compared to some others. However I'll freely admit that at this stage I know nothing about BBs so all of my assumptions could easily be completely wrong.

Thanks again for all of the help!

Cheers,

John

[Brucey]

I'd replace the BB when it wears out but not bother otherwise.

The chainring looks like a 130BCD one to me (for which there are many chainrings to choose from), but you will have to measure up to be sure.

I'd run a 1/8" chain (even on 3/32" ring/sprocket) because the chain will be cheaper, run more quietly, and often will last longer too.

In theory a large chainring and sprocket (to give the same gear ratio) is slightly more efficient but in reality 40/16 isn't going to be that much different than 45/18 (say). A 16T freewheel is dirt cheap so I'd just try that first of all.

cheers

[John_S]

Hi Brucey,

Thanks for the advice about the BB, chainring and chainring/sprocket ratios! I'll also look for a 1/8" chain.

Also sorry for yet another question but I've never done anything like this before.

On the subject of wheels / rims my wife has said that she'll treat me to some if not all of the wheel cost as a Christmas present so I was going to treat myself to something more expensive than I would have otherwise bought myself.

I'm looking at buying these DT Swiss TK 540 rims:-

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/dt-swiss-28-tk-540-atb-rim/aid:580558

At the same time I'll try to buy spokes and spoke nipples but how can I figure out what size I'd need to buy? Or is it impossible to tell at this stage until I know what single speed hub I'm going to buy?

The same shop sells spokes such as these:-

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/dt-swiss-champion---spoke-46961/aid:465938
or also in sets
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/dt-swiss-champion-spoke/aid:47702
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/dt-swiss-competition-spoke-47912/aid:47917

But there's a bewildering array of spokes sizes to choose from.

I'm just as confused about what size of spoke nipple to buy:-
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/dt-swiss-brass-nipples/aid:46927


Thanks to anyone for any thoughts / guidance!

John

[Brucey]

You will need spokes to match the rim and hub combination, so yes you need to work out the spoke length once you know what parts you will be using.

There are online spoke calculators which can help you work this out; it is usually best if you input your own measurements into them.

BTW building wheels for the first time is challenging and enjoyable but if you have not done it before I'd suggest that you

a) bone up on it first and
b) have a backup plan, just in case you don't take to it like a duck to water.

If you like books the very best wheelbuilding book you can buy is Jobst Brandt's one IMHO. That would make a nice present, too.

cheers

[Samuel D]

Chainset and crankset are two terms for the same thing: the combination of left and right cranks (or arms but not ‘crank arms’), chainring(s), and sometimes the spindle that holds the cranks together.

You have a square-taper bottom bracket. It may appear less protected than an external bottom bracket for Hollowtech II cranks, but looks are deceiving: the bearings are actually hidden inside the bottom bracket shell and thereby protected from the elements. In an external bottom bracket the bearings are outboard of the shell and exposed to wheel spray. The “protective casing ay both ends of the BB” is actually the bearing! Of course there are seals, but they don’t always work perfectly.

The point of an external bottom bracket is to increase stiffness for a given weight by moving the bearings outboard and using a fatter spindle, but stiffness is not a concern with a single chainring (since there is no derailleur for the chain to rub against when things flex). I would stick with your existing square-taper bottom bracket until it is done, and then replace it with a Shimano cartridge.

Regarding the wheels, I would let my wheel-builder figure out the spoke type and length. The length depends on the rim, hub (pitch circle diameter, flange width, offset), and lacing pattern (cross-four, cross-three, etc.). Or were you hoping to build them yourself? That’s not a task for the faint-hearted!

[Samuel D]

The Jobst Brandt book Brucey mentioned is The Bicycle Wheel. I have the third edition, which I believe was the last. Highly recommended if you wish to learn how wire-spoked wheels work.

[John_S]

Hi Brucey,

I've not built a wheel before but it's definitely something that I'd like to do and so I'll try to get hold of the book so thanks for the recommendation. If I get enough time I'll go with your option (a) however being realistic time wise just now in the build up to Christmas with young kids I may have to put my desire to build a wheel on hold for now and go for plan b of asking if a LBS will build the wheel for me. I might still see if my wife is happy to buy me the DT Swiss TK 540 rims and then go from there asking if my LBS can build the wheel from the rim and the hubs that I buy.


Hi Samuel D,

Many thanks for the explanation of the drive train and for helping my understand the various components. Also many thanks for explaining about the difference between square-taper and external bottom brackets which I've found really interesting and just goes to so that my initial assumption of the external bottom bracket being better protected from the elements was wrong and it's good to learn something new.


I'm now going to take a look around for chainrings to buy. Brucey has already helped here as he said, "The chainring looks like a 130BCD one to me (for which there are many chainrings to choose from), but you will have to measure up to be sure.".

I'm not certain what bit or how to measure plus it's late at night and the shed is really dark so therefore I've searched for details of the existing chainring. It says that the original bike came with "Chainset - Driveline TK-13 40T (1/2 x 3/32")". I've searched Driveline TK-13 and on the following Driveline website link it does state BCD 130:-

http://www.driveline.com.tw/_en/product_detail.php?id=63

Therefore would I be right in looking for something such as the Surly stainless steel chainring? The Surly website states that it comes in "130mm BCD x 38t, 39t, 40t, 42t, 44t, 46t, 47t, 48t, 49t and 50t".

http://surlybikes.com/parts/steamroll/stainless_steel_chainrings

http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/surly-steel-chainring-130bcd-564-p.asp

And would I be right in thinking that the current chainring can be unbolted from the existing crank and the new a new chainring bolted on?

Thanks again for all of the help!

John

[Brucey]

lots of chainrings here;

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s149p0

starting from ~£10 a go in 130BCD

cribsheet to check BCD vs neighbour spacing here

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html

yes they just unbolt. The surly stainless ones are nice but are arguably overkill in some respects; ZIcral chainrings last up to 30000 miles and are lighter. But having said that the ideal chainrings for SS are track chainrings in 1/8" made from ZIcral and they are not cheap either.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s172p0

Since you won't know what gear you will prefer until you try it, I'd suggest one or two cheap chainrings to try for size before getting posh ones. For some years I'd have 16, 17 T sprockets and 42, 44T chainrings lined up for the winter bike and this would give me enough gear choices.

cheers