CTC AGM possible motions

millimole
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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby millimole » 24 Dec 2015, 5:38pm

Foundered or sunk - it's still the same dead horse being flogged (great mixing of metaphors)
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Audaxing on my Dawes; Riding to work on a Decathlon Hoprider

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robgul
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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby robgul » 24 Dec 2015, 5:47pm

millimole wrote:Foundered or sunk - it's still the same dead horse being flogged (great mixing of metaphors)


Indeed - my point!

As they say : Move along now, there's nothing to see here.

Rob

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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby PH » 24 Dec 2015, 5:54pm

millimole wrote:These motions have the feel of the sort of proposals that would go before the 'old' club and be passed willingly (and then in all likelihood be forgotten).

And you think that was a good thing?
I don't know when this golden age was, it's certainly not something I recognise from the last two decades.

millimole
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CTC AGM possible motions

Postby millimole » 24 Dec 2015, 6:19pm

No I don't think it was a good thing. I was pointing out that times - and the CTC - have changed.
While I don't believe personally that the changes to the structure of CTC are a good thing, the two are not necessarily the same. My original comment made no direct reference to that view.
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Audaxing on my Dawes; Riding to work on a Decathlon Hoprider

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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby Steady rider » 27 Dec 2015, 4:26pm

I have reconsidered the options and made a few changes. I think most cyclists will support the motions, in short,
1 - passing clearance
2 - 3% funding of transport budget, climate change policy
3 - CTC arm of a bridge charity
4 - extra events to help fund 3
5 - road closure requirements, before closing can be made
6 - detailing parts that need changing in the Highway Code
7 - The CTC seeks changes to Police speed enforcement policy guidance

Possible CTC AGM motions (reason - the UK cyclist fatality rate is approximately 24 per billion km and in the Netherlands approximately 6 per billion km, so major improvements are needed to deliver a much higher level of safety for cyclists.),

1
Asks for a legal requirement for minimum passing clearance when overtaking cyclists, to try and reduce the frequency of vehicles passing too close. On roads with speed limits up to and including 30 mph/hr, a 1m minimum is suggested and on roads with higher speed limits, a 1.5m minimum passing distance is suggested.

(trying to provide an extra incentive for drivers to take more care when overtaking cyclists, only overtaking when suitable space is available), http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/10/south ... -cyclists/


2
The CTC to promote a European Union climate change policy of national governments funding cycling infrastructure, with a 3% minimum investment of transport spending on cycling infrastructure (built to CROW standards) or investment in relationship to the modal share of cycling.

(trying to ensure that reasonable levels of funding are available to provide cycling infrastructure in all EU countries, see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=102233)
http://www.ecf.com/wp-content/uploads/D ... t-Mode.pdf


3
The CTC to establish a ‘CTC Bridge charity group (initially expected to based on volunteers), with the aims of assessing the need, advising on design, and assist in raising funds to provide extra bridges or crossing facilities for rivers, roads or rail in regards to cycling.

(CTC could assist in highlighting where an additional crossing may be worthwhile, provide design advice and help to raise funds. This could result in the CTC being more directly involved in providing more cycle routes and working with Sustrans or others to deliver them.)

4
The CTC to organise extra cycle rally/camping events with funds raised going to the ‘CTC Bridge charity’.

(Following the major cycling events successes in England and more people cycling in parts, providing extra events may help to promote cycling generally and raise funds in support of a ‘CTC Bridge charity.)

5
The CTC to take steps to ensure that when a road or section of road is proposed to be closed permanently to cyclists that at least 12 months notice is provided and publication of alternative routes and costs of improvements to existing routes or alternatives be published. Only after the details have been published and if no objection lodged could a closure be exacted.

(Some high speed roads without proper provision for cycling are closed to cyclists for safety reasons. A full assessment in each case is required to ensure all options are considered and cost estimate/s are provided regarding the options before a closure is enacted and if objections are lodged, a procedure to consider the options is required.)

6
The CTC to fully detail the changes that are needed to the Highway Code, for example, the Introduction to the Highway Code includes:

Although failure to comply with the other rules of The Highway Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The road user and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

By adding, ‘However, liability should not be based primarily on wearing extra safety aids in the case of pedestrians and cyclists’, or similar wording. This would help ensure that the Highway Code's advice is not used as an excuse to reduce fair compensation for cyclists or pedestrians who have been wearing normal cloths, without extra safety aids. In 2013 the CTC voted for changes to the Highway Code and the issue has been raised in the House of Lords. It may help if CTC takes additional actions and detail and promote the changes needed, rather than waiting for when the Code is next revised and making a submission.

7
The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has issued speed enforcement policy guidance on charging threshold of; 'normally 10 per cent over the speed limit plus 2 mph'. The change suggested is to 'normally 10 per cent over the speed limit or 4 mph over the limit, whichever is the greater'. This would change the thresholds for all zones except the 20 mph zone. as follows;
20 mph - 24 mph (same)
30 mph - 35 to 34 mph
40 mph - 46 to 44 mph
50 mph - 57 to 55 mph
60 mph - 68 to 66 mph
70 mph - 79 to 77 mph.

(The number of people killed on built-up roads increased by 9.1 per cent to 783 fatalities in 2014. The number of seriously and slightly injured casualties on built-up roads rose by 4.2 per cent and 7.2 per cent respectively in 2014.)
It is on urban roads that the majority of road casualties occur, including 87% of all pedestrian and 83% of all pedal cyclists casualties (DfT, 2011).
Seconders required for each motion or one for the lot would make it easier.

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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby Ron » 30 Dec 2015, 12:32pm

Steady rider wrote:It is on urban roads that the majority of road casualties occur,

This is debatable, a bit like discounting population density and saying there are more cases of arthritis(select the disease of your choice!) in urban areas than rural areas.
http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice ... ers/rural/
http://think.direct.gov.uk/country-roads.html
http://www.brake.org.uk/news/10-whats-h ... -sideroads

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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby Steady rider » 30 Dec 2015, 1:54pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... eport-2013
RAS30009
Reported casualties by gender, built-up and non built-up roads, road class and severity, Great Britain,
2005-09 average, 2006 - 2013
page 112, 2013 year
all built up roads 130602,
all non built up roads 44336
for cycling the fatality per mile does seem higher for non-built up roads.

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Philip Benstead
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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby Philip Benstead » 30 Dec 2015, 2:03pm

Even though I agree with the sentiments of these motions you are wasting your time.

Paul Tuohy and the council are bringing changes to the selection of board of trustees/council which will mean that it will be almost impossible to become a trustee unless Paul approves of you.
Instead IMHO the board of trustees will become scrutiny committee and policy will be deciding by CTC leadership team consisting of the CEO and staff and maybe the chair.

Trustees will no longer will be representative of the membership.
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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby Steady rider » 30 Dec 2015, 2:42pm

The selection process/requirements for nomination of Council members was changed some years ago, requiring more nominees, and is an area that would probably not be generally discussed by cyclists. Each year all members can potentially influence what the CTC does by voting for motions or presenting motions or via CTC Councillors. The 8 motions at the minute are listed below, more concise and one added.

A motion for changing the timing of the process may give members more time to consider any motion, e.g. motions in by the start of the new year, published in Feb/March Cycle, discuss via letters in April/May and voted on in May AGM.
This would allow for letters to cover any motion to be seen by the whole membership. Currently they have the motions and Councils view on the motion, that may be just as good, but favours Councils view.

1
Asks for a legal requirement for minimum passing clearance when overtaking cyclists, to try and reduce the frequency of vehicles passing too close. On roads with speed limits up to and including 30 mph/hr, a 1m minimum is suggested and on roads with higher speed limits, a 1.5m minimum passing distance is suggested.

(trying to provide an extra incentive for drivers to take more care when overtaking cyclists, only overtaking when suitable space is available), http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/10/south ... -cyclists/

2
The CTC to promote a European Union climate change policy of national governments funding cycling infrastructure, with a 3% minimum investment of transport spending on cycling infrastructure (built to CROW standards) or investment in relationship to the modal share of cycling.

(trying to ensure that reasonable levels of funding are available to provide cycling infrastructure in all EU countries, see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=102233)
http://www.ecf.com/wp-content/uploads/D ... t-Mode.pdf


3
The CTC to establish a ‘CTC Bridge charity group (initially expected to based on volunteers), with the aims of assessing the need, advising on design, and assist in raising funds to provide extra bridges or crossing facilities for rivers, roads or rail in regards to cycling.

(CTC could assist in highlighting where an additional crossing may be worthwhile, provide design advice and help to raise funds. This could result in the CTC being more directly involved in providing more cycle routes and working with Sustrans or others to deliver them.)


4
The CTC to organise extra cycle rally/camping events with funds raised going to the ‘CTC Bridge charity’.

(Following the major cycling events successes in England and more people cycling in parts, providing extra events may help to promote cycling generally and raise funds in support of a ‘CTC Bridge charity.)


5
The CTC to take steps to ensure that when a road or section of road is proposed to be closed permanently to cyclists that at least 12 months notice is provided and publication of alternative routes and costs of improvements to existing routes or alternatives be published. Only after the details have been published and if no objection lodged could a closure be exacted.

(A full assessment, options/costs in each case is before a closure is enacted and if objections are lodged, a procedure to consider the options is required.)


6
In 2013 the CTC voted for changes to the Highway Code and the issue has been raised in the House of Lords. The motion asks the CTC to takes additional steps and detail and promote the changes needed, rather than waiting for when the Code is next revised and making a submission.


7
The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has issued speed enforcement policy guidance on charging threshold of; 'normally 10 per cent over the speed limit plus 2 mph'. The CTC requests a change to 'normally 10 per cent over the speed limit or 4 mph over the limit, whichever is the greater'. This would reduce the thresholds for all speed zones except the 20 mph zone, e.g. 40 mph zone, current threshold 46 mph to 44 mph.

(The number of people killed on built-up roads increased by 9.1 per cent to 783 fatalities in 2014.)


8
The CTC requests that motor vehicle lights be regulated to limit wattage and avoid undue brightness that may hinder other road users in seeing clearly and encouraging speeding at night.

( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989 ... ule/4/made no requirement on wattage)

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RickH
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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby RickH » 30 Dec 2015, 3:47pm

Some thoughts

  1. Is probably a good idea (& probably needs to be linked to 6) as it gives a clear distance and is better than the current "same space as a car" which can be interpreted in different ways.
  2. More needs to be done. How it gets done is open to debate. I think more emphsasis could be put on the savings that can be made on provision needed for motor vehicles by promoting cycling - such as for every 10 people cycling into a town rather than going by car you can save the need for up to 9 parking spaces (maybe 5 would be more reasonable to take account of multiple occupants). Planning decent infrastructure in new road builds need not cost much but there has to be provision for maintenance. Encouraging active travel needs to be more than just lip service.
  3. Not sure about this as a separate entity. But it could be part of a campaign focus.
  4. As has been said before, I don't think the CTC as a national organisation organises any rally type events. I'm not sure it is likely to start now and there is the potential risk of any loss making events draining resources rather than enhancing them.
  5. Better planning and consultation to take into account the needs of cyclists would be a good thing, whether 12 months is too long I don't know. What consultation periods for changes are there already?
  6. I don't know if anything is happening proactively behind the scenes - it may well be already. Perhaps a motion on this would give the opportunity to find out.
  7. Do we need changes or just better enforcement of speeding to existing standards.
  8. Wattage is a bit of a red herring - I doubt my Exposure Toro uses significantly more power than my old Never Ready lamps (& equivalent) did in the 70s/80s but the light output is markedly different - 700 lumens for the 2010 Toro, probably single figures for the Never Ready, possibly a negative number! :wink:
Rick.

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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby al_yrpal » 30 Dec 2015, 3:52pm

I have always said that a mandatory passing distance is the one thing that will make a massive improvement in safety for cyclists. Its the law in France and NZ and parts of Oz. The CTC should concentrate its efforts to get the law changed on this one thing rather than dilute its campaign with others.

Al
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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby Steady rider » 30 Dec 2015, 6:39pm

Thanks for the comments, some feedback
1
The contributory factor ‘passing too close to pedal cyclist’ is also commonly recorded for buses and HGVs. Between 2009 and 2013, 23 per cent of HGVs and 21 per cent of buses involved in accidents with a pedal cyclist were allocated the contributory factor ‘passing too close to pedal cyclist’.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 3-data.pdf

2
http://www.ecf.com/wp-content/uploads/E ... cities.pdf

3&4
Not sure about this as a separate entity. But it could be part of a campaign focus.
As has been said before, I don't think the CTC as a national organisation organises any rally type events. I'm not sure it is likely to start now and there is the potential risk of any loss making events draining resources rather than enhancing them.


If it was run mainly by volunteers to start with and taking a step at a time, so that costs v expenditure could be viewed and no facility to borrow in general terms, it may be slow to progress but with little risk of losing money. It would be leading the CTC into providing more rally type events and associated time/costs.

5
https://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/pages/ ... hemes.aspx
Consultations look to be for a couple of months perhaps and a questionnaire to fill in. A 12 month notice period for closing a road to cyclists would allow the CTC/members/public to consider all the options in detail and if needed prepare their own report and lodge objections where desired or suggest improvements to existing or alternative routes.

6)
The Highway Code is changed each year to reflect legislation but only about once in 10 years to update for consultation. Detailing the changes the CTC would like allows for members to view the issues and campaign for changes.
In addition if the changes were not supported taking additional action may be possible.

7)
Do we need changes or just better enforcement of speeding to existing standards
enforcement is a key issue. The Police guidelines allow/suggest 46 mph in a 40 zone before issuing a ticket, how poor is that.

if some cars lights are getting too strong may need investigating

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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby John Catt » 30 Dec 2015, 6:53pm

Steady rider wrote:The selection process/requirements for nomination of Council members was changed some years ago, requiring more nominees, and is an area that would probably not be generally discussed by cyclists. Each year all members can potentially influence what the CTC does by voting for motions or presenting motions or via CTC Councillors.


The change was to require fewer nominees for those standing for Council. It is now down to 5. As I recall it was 12. See http://www.ctc.org.uk/about-ctc/ctc-nat ... et-elected .

I think it needs to be remembered that the CTC is a small organisation in political terms with very limited influence. To be effective it has to work tactically, concentrating on issues as they arise, where it can bring about changes to improve the environment for cycling. I don't think there would be much opposition in general to the suggested motions but I don't think they would make any difference to what the CTC does. If you want to get closer to the nitty gritty why not stand for Council? That is what it is for.

Council can always over-rule a Chief Executive if it so chooses, simply on the basis of Company Law, since they are the Directors. This will remain the case unless the M&AA are amended, which would require a 75% majority of the members voting. If Council choose to appoint an Executive Committee, that is their decision, but they can abolish this at any time on a simple majority of votes.

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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby John Catt » 30 Dec 2015, 7:25pm

Reviewing this discussion - I wonder if members have checked out the existing CTC policies - see http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views-and-briefings .

Campaigning for a change in the law on passing distances - when the current law if properly enforced would require this - seems strange when the problem is enforcement of existing laws - see http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views ... ur-and-law .

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Re: CTC AGM possible motions

Postby gaz » 30 Dec 2015, 7:52pm

John Catt wrote:...Campaigning for a change in the law on passing distances - when the current law if properly enforced would require this - seems strange when the problem is enforcement of existing laws - see http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views ... ur-and-law .

:? Did you perhaps mean to link this one: http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views ... t-overview

If you did then I can readily accept that close overtakes should fall into the categories of careless/dangerous driving and be charged accordingly. That was how using a mobile phone at the wheel was prosecuted, before it was made a specific offence to eliminate the wriggle room otherwise available. In the same way a minimum overtaking distance eliminates wriggle room. It still needs the resources and will to enforce it.
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