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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 25 Dec 2020, 8:14am
by Sweep
Paulatic wrote:Sweep wrote:[
Contrary to what some folk think, and maybe see it as a sure sign of well on the road to hell, I think there's a lot to be said for daytime drinking. If you can spare the time. And aren't operating heavy machinery etc.
Alcohol interferes with good quality sleep.
I agree with that but sad it took me a long time to realise. I was just getting into the habit of a once a month bus trip to town for lunch and a couple of beers. Then CV came along
Just seen.
Never fear paulatic, happier times will return soon and you can return to your daytime sin and deep untroubled sleep.
In case anyone fears that i have a daytime drinking problem, am having a dry christmas due to current covid travel restrictions.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 25 Dec 2020, 10:16am
by Jdsk
Syd wrote:The major problem with statistics is that many if those who drink to excess lie to themselves and others so give false answers when questioned.
Because of that bias it's generally reckoned that the higher the response the more honest.
And computerised surveys give higher results!
Happy Christmas
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 25 Dec 2020, 10:28am
by simonineaston
Where's the difference?
The difference I think I was referring to is this: On the one hand (depending on who you listen to, of course), we are told that there is
no such thing a safe level of alchol consumption. To paraphrase a biscuity motto, One nibble and you're nobbled! This is worked out from, I assume, stats gathered over the years from health care and social support institutions. On the other hand, I can think back to all the social events I've attended where alcohol was very much inevidence and a big fat Good Time was had by all.
So, look with one pair of spex on and all you see is disease, injury, death & social upheaval (ask any policeman). Pop on your rose-tinted spex and all you'll see is fun fun fun and a heap of good memories. Both can't be right, can they??
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 25 Dec 2020, 10:31am
by Jdsk
Thanks.
But I think that what you are describing is the contrast between our social attitudes to consuming alcohol and the evidence of harm. Not the harm that you've seen it caused in individuals and the harm that's documented in the statistics: they're aligned.
Happy Christmas
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 25 Dec 2020, 12:39pm
by irc
simonineaston wrote:e other hand, I can think back to all the social events I've attended where alcohol was very much inevidence and a big fat Good Time was had by all.
So, look with one pair of spex on and all you see is disease, injury, death & social upheaval (ask any policeman). Pop on your rose-tinted spex and all you'll see is fun fun fun and a heap of good memories. Both can't be right, can they??
Yes they can. Excess consumption is bad. But unlike tobacco for example there is evidence that moderate alcohol consumption has a net health benefit. Leaving aside the question of whether a very slight risk is worth the enjoyment. A calculation we make every day for other things.
'All cause mortality is at its lowest at modest drinking levels (at about 1 unit a day for men and women) and does not exceed the mortality level of abstainers until consumption levels which are somewhat higher than the current recommended sensible drinking levels of 14 units per week for women and 21 units for men.'
https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co ... oduct.html
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 25 Dec 2020, 2:36pm
by Syd
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 26 Dec 2020, 5:34am
by andrewwillans49
My Father was a very heavy drinker, always in the pub and never drank at home. It caused my parents to divorce and he died at 57 years old of cancer of the aesophagous. That was in 1992. He was a tough, burly bricklayer with a good sense of humour and sharp wit and the bonhomie of the pub atmosphere suited him. From diagnosis to death was just a few months. He laughed it off telling me and my siblings "a bit early but I've had a good time". Now I'm not teetotal, but hardly drink. So if people following this thread like a jar or two I'd never criticise or judge, but bear in mind other people can unwittingly become casualties of what seems harmless fun times.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 26 Dec 2020, 12:26pm
by Ride-sleep-repeat
Jdsk wrote:Cyril Haearn wrote:... I think alcohol sale and consumption should be limited
Do you mean at all, or tighter than at present in the UK?
Thanks
Jonathan
From his/her posts CH seems to be of the opinion that anything he/she doesn't do or agree with should be restricted.He/she doesn't seem to like being questioned regarding this as he/she rarely replies.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 26 Dec 2020, 12:33pm
by simonineaston
There's a glib saying doing the rounds, to the effect that if alcohol were invented tomorrow, they'd ban it straightaway... however, as it stands, it's woven deeply into the fabric of most societies, to the extent that it's not possible to make changes. Witness the attempt by the States to introduce prohibition. Didn't work of course - but on the plus side, it's the background for loads of quite enjoyable films!
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 26 Dec 2020, 2:11pm
by Cyril Haearn
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:[quote=
Cyril Haearn wrote:... I think alcohol sale and consumption should be limited
From his/her posts CH seems to be of the opinion that anything he/she doesn't do or agree with should be restricted.He/she doesn't seem to like being questioned regarding this as he/she rarely replies.
I ignore a handful of members, for very obvious reasons
Just wish they would ignore me, like in real life
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 26 Dec 2020, 2:21pm
by Jdsk
Cyril Haearn wrote:Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:zzz wrote:Do you mean at all, or tighter than at present in the UK?
From his/her posts CH seems to be of the opinion that anything he/she doesn't do or agree with should be restricted.He/she doesn't seem to like being questioned regarding this as he/she rarely replies.
I ignore a handful of members, for obvious reasons
Just wish they would ignore me
I see what you mean,
Ride-sleep-repeat.
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 26 Dec 2020, 2:27pm
by Jdsk
simonineaston wrote:There's a glib saying doing the rounds, to the effect that if alcohol were invented tomorrow, they'd ban it straightaway... however, as it stands, it's woven deeply into the fabric of most societies, to the extent that it's not possible to make changes. Witness the attempt by the States to introduce prohibition. Didn't work of course - but on the plus side, it's the background for loads of quite enjoyable films!
I really like the idea of drug policy being based on benefits and harms rather than history. And if it were it would be a lot more favourable to cannabis and a lot less to alcohol.
But policies can affect consumption. As can other factors: see for example the current decrease in alcohol consumption by young adults in the UK.
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 26 Dec 2020, 4:33pm
by Syd
Minimum pricing on alcohol brought about a decrease in its first year in Scotland.
Alcohol off-sales fall in first year of minimum pricing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51269004I suspect 2020 will bring anomalous figures.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 26 Dec 2020, 8:07pm
by Mike Sales
Jdsk wrote:I really like the idea of drug policy being based on benefits and harms rather than history. And if it were it would be a lot more favourable to cannabis and a lot less to alcohol.
You are probably aware of the work of David Nutt.
He was chairman on the Government's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs until he came up with conclusions the politicians did not like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_NuttVarious drugs were given a ranking which depended on harm to the user
and harm to society.
MCDA modelling showed that heroin, crack cocaine, and metamfetamine were the most harmful drugs to individuals (part scores 34, 37, and 32, respectively), whereas alcohol, heroin, and crack cocaine were the most harmful to others (46, 21, and 17, respectively). Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places.
The issue of the mismatch between lawmakers' classification of recreational drugs, in particular that of cannabis, and scientific measures of their harmfulness surfaced again in October 2009, after the publication of a pamphlet[48] containing a lecture Nutt had given to the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies at King's College London in July 2009. In this, Nutt repeated his view that illicit drugs should be classified according to the actual evidence of the harm they cause, and presented an analysis in which nine 'parameters of harm' (grouped as 'physical harm', 'dependence', and 'social harms') revealed that alcohol or tobacco were more harmful than LSD, ecstasy or cannabis. In this ranking, alcohol came fifth behind heroin, cocaine, barbiturates and methadone, and tobacco ranked ninth, ahead of cannabis, LSD and ecstasy, he said.
http://www.ias.org.uk/What-we-do/Alcohol-Alert/Issue-3-2010/Alcohol-and-tobacco-quotmore-harmful-than-cannabis-and-ecstasyquot.aspxI have always been interested in comparing the "noble experiment" of alcohol prohibition in the USA with their war on drugs.
Prohibition was abandoned when it became clear that the social damage it caused and its futility made it absurd. I suppose some states are moving towards relaxation of cannabis laws, but anti drug laws put so many people in their horrible prisons, and so many of these are black, that much more rational drug laws are needed. Our own drug policy is hardly a success either.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 2:06pm
by Mick F
simonineaston wrote:Witness the attempt by the States to introduce prohibition. Didn't work of course - but on the plus side, it's the background for loads of quite enjoyable films!
My uncle's wife .....................
That is my mother's older brother's wife ..... my Aunt Nancy-May Guggenheim ..... was a Florida girl and at the age of 11 her dad bought her a car and put blocks on the pedals so she could reach, and gave her enough gas to get her to school and back.
Meanwhile, her dad was a moonshine runner.