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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 2:09pm
by Navrig
andrewwillans49 wrote:My Father was a very heavy drinker, always in the pub and never drank at home. It caused my parents to divorce and he died at 57 years old of cancer of the aesophagous. That was in 1992. He was a tough, burly bricklayer with a good sense of humour and sharp wit and the bonhomie of the pub atmosphere suited him. From diagnosis to death was just a few months. He laughed it off telling me and my siblings "a bit early but I've had a good time". Now I'm not teetotal, but hardly drink. So if people following this thread like a jar or two I'd never criticise or judge, but bear in mind other people can unwittingly become casualties of what seems harmless fun times.
My dad had a similar attitude, believing that by drinking in the pub he was not setting a bad example for us kids. The problem was that it became habitual meaning he always came home from work with at least 2 pints and 2 whiskies in him. When he retired the weekend habit of a lunchtime pub visit became daily. On the few occasions ill health stopped the ritual he was jittery and uneasy. Basically he was a functioning alcoholic and yet I only saw him "properly" drunk 2 or 3 times.
Many years ago alcoholic referred to someone who just got completely inebriated too often. Now, at least, the top up alcoholic is recognised, but perhaps not supported.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 3:05pm
by simonineaston
I think my earliest encounter with a proper, old-fashioned alcoholic, was a family friend who always turned up, cheerful & slurring-drunk to social events, literally had a quarter-bottle of scotch in his jacket pocket and stank of booze and fags. His lovely wife (one of a circle of family baby-sitters...) lost him early, of course, as well as her only daughter who had inherted some her da's destructive behaviour - poor woman. How sad. Funny thing was, he was a 'pillar of the local community', a JP. Drove everywhere, totally stoned, for years. Life's ironies, eh...
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 5:52pm
by mumbojumbo
Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Postby SpannerGeek » 10 Jan 2016, 10:20am
The new limits are the well publicised 14 units. I drink at least three times that on a normal week.
I'm having a dry January, mainly to shift the bit of timber i put on after the holidays, but I doubt very much I'll be paying any attention to the Government. Alcohol is an excellent sedative and muscle relexant. People have been using it to that end for over 5000 years. What are they playing at!!! Next it'll be 'any alcohol is dangerous'!!
The government are seeking to help you my using an empirical argument.The problem is that old soaks with raddled organs are using scarce health resources,like the lazy and greedy who developtype 2 diabetes.For 5000 years people died in 30s before modern society attended to health diet etc.Not a persuasive argument.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 12:07am
by Billy007
andrewwillans49 wrote:My Father was a very heavy drinker, always in the pub and never drank at home. It caused my parents to divorce and he died at 57 years old of cancer of the aesophagous. That was in 1992. He was a tough, burly bricklayer with a good sense of humour and sharp wit and the bonhomie of the pub atmosphere suited him. From diagnosis to death was just a few months. He laughed it off telling me and my siblings "a bit early but I've had a good time". Now I'm not teetotal, but hardly drink. So if people following this thread like a jar or two I'd never criticise or judge, but bear in mind other people can unwittingly become casualties of what seems harmless fun times.
Indeed. I wonder how many people would continue drinking if they could see the affect alcohol was actually having on their vital organs and brain? Which rather begs the question why do doctors drink? Surely they would be well aware of the detrimental affects of alcohol on their bodies, not to mention all those injured in RTAs because of drunk drivers?
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 9:43am
by Jdsk
I expect that people who are medically qualified abuse alcohol for the same reasons as people who aren't.
A Finnish study in 1988 came up with
"Increased alcohol consumption was associated with older age, disappointment with career, heavy smoking, use of benzodiazepines, stress and burnout symptoms, suicidal thoughts, general dissatisfaction, and diseases related to alcohol. Drinking habits were heavier among doctors working in community health centres, those taking long sick leaves, younger doctors disappointed with their careers or the atmosphere at work, and older doctors immersed in their work."https://www.bmj.com/content/297/6654/951.shortI don't have recent data on alcohol consumption of doctors in the UK... anyone?
Education and experience might have some protective effects but I'd never assume that they'd trump the little devil on the other shoulder.
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 6:23pm
by Sweep
That strikes me as a tad unbalanced.
But as a piece of research leaves me with the conclusion that finns are gloomy sods.
Might even say glass half full types.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 6:47pm
by Syd
There are many other things some doctors abuse. It’s not just alcohol.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 6:54pm
by Jdsk
Sweep wrote:That strikes me as a tad unbalanced.
It's an observational study. What does "unbalanced" mean in this context, please?
Syd wrote:There are many other things some doctors abuse. It’s not just alcohol.
Yes. Abuse of prescription drugs is a risk... as well as the stress factors the reasons probably include ease of access.
And one day I'll see a good explanation of why so many nurses smoke tobacco...
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 7:09pm
by Sweep
Jdsk wrote:Sweep wrote:That strikes me as a tad unbalanced.
It's an observational study. What does "unbalanced" mean in this context, please?
Jonathan
Well it's 100 per cent bloody negative.
And "increased" from what base.
?
(Am typing this under the influence of a fine 7 per cent plus cider, but haven't had a drink for days and had an extended dry christmas.)
My experience of finns.
That dodgy gloomy sounding research.
A woman who turned me down for a dance many years ago.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 7:10pm
by Syd
Jdsk wrote:Yes. Abuse of prescription drugs is a risk... as well as the stress factors the reasons probably include ease of access.
Jonathan
There is also an anomaly that anaesthesia volatiles and gaseous pain relief products are not prescription products.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 7:12pm
by Jdsk
Sweep wrote:Jdsk wrote:Sweep wrote:That strikes me as a tad unbalanced.
It's an observational study. What does "unbalanced" mean in this context, please?
Well it's 100 per cent bloody negative.
And "increased" from what base.
?
Have you had the opportunity to read the paper?
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 7:14pm
by Sweep
Jdsk wrote:Sweep wrote:Jdsk wrote:It's an observational study. What does "unbalanced" mean in this context, please?
Well it's 100 per cent bloody negative.
And "increased" from what base.
?
Have you had the opportunity to read the paper?
Jonathan
No, i was replying to the bit you quoted.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 7:18pm
by Jdsk
It's probably a good idea to read the paper. I'd be happy to try and answer questions after that.
Jonathan
PS: The purpose of a study like that isn't to be "negative" or "positive" or "balanced"... it's to describe what was observed.
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 17 Jan 2022, 9:24am
by Jdsk
NB date.
New data on consumption during the outbreak:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... perts-warn
(Not good news.)
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?
Posted: 17 Jan 2022, 9:48am
by Pebble
I still keep under the pre-gender equality limit for men of 21 units per week. (av about 18). If I was living in spain I could apparently safely drink up to 35 units a week.
https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/drin ... ic-287238/
The UK seems to be the only country in the world to have gender equality safe limits for drinking!