Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

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Shootist
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by Shootist »

reohn2 wrote:Which begs the question,if alcohol prices are increased significantly will it lead to an increase in people brewing their own beer and wine and distilling their own moonshine? :shock:


I would doubt that, but there is already a burgeoning market for illicitly produced alcohol in this country, with quite a few illicit distilleries blowing themselves to kingdom come in various places in the UK, notably Lincolnshire. There is also a very high import level of undutied beer which HMRC cannot be bothered with because it takes up too much space. At least with illicit spirits the death and blindness rate is such that if it really takes off the government will find it difficult to ignore, unlike illicit tobacco that will for sure kill off not only it's users in 20 years time, but also the NHS, which will be bankrupted trying to treat all the cancers, heart diseases, and lung diseases that the illicit tobacco sales are causing.

Still, looking on the bright side it will at least kill off all those people who are stupid enough to put chemicals from an unknown source into their bodies on a regular basis, be it tobacco that has far more carcinogens than encountered in branded goods, to spirits made from wood alcohol, or ecstasy tablets from the bloke outside the club. I'm not saying that stupid people deserve to die, just that we could remove the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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Vorpal
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by Vorpal »

While most people wouldn't risk their livelihood by serving fake alcohol, HMRC seizes a couple million litres of the stuff every year. Do you really think that none of that is sold in pubs and bars in apparently legitimate containers? Is it fair to blind a young adult who goes to a dodgy pub with some friends? Or hospitalise someone who buys what s/he thinks is a perfectly safe drink in moderation?

Even if we acept that people get their just reward for doing something stupid (I'm not sure that I do), the problem is that fake alcohol doesn't only injure and kill those who buy stuff in dodgy places at prices that are too good to be true. Or those who deliberately drink wood alcohol.
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Mick F
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by Mick F »

reohn2 wrote:Which begs the question,if alcohol prices are increased significantly will it lead to an increase in people brewing their own beer and wine and distilling their own moonshine? :shock:
We've brewed beer in the past. Kits from Boots the Chemist of all places!
Also made wine from elderberries or orange juice or apple juice. We bought kits for a while, but it's easier to make your own from raw ingredients.

We know an alcoholic who bought a still off the internet and distills something or other into almost neat alcohol then "waters it down" it with Bacardi (if he can afford it) or cheap supermarket rum. :shock:
Mick F. Cornwall
SpannerGeek
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by SpannerGeek »

And this is exactly the consequence in Norway, where beer is £8-10 a pint. Illicit stills are widespread making mostly high strength spirits which are predominantly drunk in the home. Osbornes 'economic miracle' is clearly well off course, and likely will never happen. The only way they can increase revenues without losing the next election is via indirect taxation. Tobacco revenue has fallen year on year and alcohol is just about the last tax they can hammer.

How do you make that palatable? Scare stories like 14 units a week. This is THE most mendacious, scurrilous administration Britain has ever had to suffer. There are no lies they won't tell, no deceit too strong to steamroller through their own brand of right wing, in your face, control of the population.

Alcohol pricing and prescription are only the start of it. Parenting classes for all? And if you dont comply...
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by SpannerGeek »

Shootist wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Which begs the question,if alcohol prices are increased significantly will it lead to an increase in people brewing their own beer and wine and distilling their own moonshine? :shock:




Still, looking on the bright side it will at least kill off all those people who are stupid enough to put chemicals from an unknown source into their bodies on a regular basis, be it tobacco that has far more carcinogens than encountered in branded goods, to spirits made from wood alcohol, or ecstasy tablets from the bloke outside the club. I'm not saying that stupid people deserve to die, just that we could remove the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.


Looking on the bright side you probably know, or have relatives who do exactly that. They take chemical stimulants because they ENJOY the effects. Just like people who drink alcohol. Ecstasy users are expected to top three quarters of a million this year. And one in four young people are users. It's hardly a minority sub culture. It's mainstream. Deaths from ecstasy are very few and far between. 28 last year, compare this to 8500 deaths directly attributable to alcohol. Its a drop in the ocean.

You seem very embittered about people enjoying themselves while intoxicated.

Perhaps you have a story to tell yourself?
reohn2
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by reohn2 »

Osbornes 'economic miracle' is clearly well off course

Ain't that the truth! :wink:

SpannerGeek wrote:And this is exactly the consequence in Norway, where beer is £8-10 a pint. Illicit stills are widespread making mostly high strength spirits which are predominantly drunk in the home. Osbornes 'economic miracle' is clearly well off course, and likely will never happen. The only way they can increase revenues without losing the next election is via indirect taxation. Tobacco revenue has fallen year on year and alcohol is just about the last tax they can hammer.

How do you make that palatable? Scare stories like 14 units a week......

......Alcohol pricing and prescription are only the start of it. Parenting classes for all? And if you dont comply...

Stranger things have happened

This is THE most mendacious, scurrilous administration Britain has ever had to suffer. There are no lies they won't tell, no deceit too strong to steamroller through their own brand of right wing, in your face, control of the population.

You're telling the truth again :wink:
I reckon there's one or two stones they haven't upturned yet,but what's betting non of them will involve make multinationals pay their taxes......
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Shootist
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by Shootist »

SpannerGeek wrote:You seem very embittered about people enjoying themselves while intoxicated.
Perhaps you have a story to tell yourself?


Always someone has to show up to display their nasty side. I have no story to tell other than having spent too much time dealing with the consequences of self inebriating fools and the lives they have ruined. But my real constant surprise is why people need to hide from reality behind drugs in order to 'have a good time'. In my eyes they are losers, who cannot cope with life as it is in reality. The same goes for those who regularly need alcohol (or drugs) in order to 'relax'. I understand that in exceptional circumstances, circumstances I have encountered a half dozen time perhaps in the last 40 or 50 years. And I do have relatives who suffer this deficiency.

Enjoying the effects? I used to smoke very heavily. I defended this by saying I enjoyed a cigarette. I did, but giving up, which probably saved my life, and a great deal of money, made me realise that what I was enjoying the normal life that I couldn't have without my nicotine fix. I'm far from embittered, just mildly disappointed, and very disappointed indeed when I have to pay the bill.
Pacifists cannot accept the statement "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.", despite it being "grossly obvious."
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irc
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by irc »

Shootist wrote:
SpannerGeek wrote:You seem very embittered about people enjoying themselves while intoxicated.
Perhaps you have a story to tell yourself?


Always someone has to show up to display their nasty side. I have no story to tell other than having spent too much time dealing with the consequences of self inebriating fools and the lives they have ruined. But my real constant surprise is why people need to hide from reality behind drugs in order to 'have a good time'. In my eyes they are losers, who cannot cope with life as it is in reality. The same goes for those who regularly need alcohol (or drugs) in order to 'relax'..


So suggesting someone is embittered is nasty? Seems in the same ballpark as saying someone who likes a pint to relax is a "loser."
Shootist
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by Shootist »

irc wrote:So suggesting someone is embittered is nasty? Seems in the same ballpark as saying someone who likes a pint to relax is a "loser."


Only if there is evidence to support the suggestion rather than a snide opinion that is without any knowledge or foundation.
Pacifists cannot accept the statement "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.", despite it being "grossly obvious."
[George Orwell]
SpannerGeek
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by SpannerGeek »

My statistics are garnered from the Office for National statistics.

What's your evidence to brand 25 million people who like a quiet pint at the weekend 'losers'?
Shootist
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by Shootist »

SpannerGeek wrote:My statistics are garnered from the Office for National statistics.

What's your evidence to brand 25 million people who like a quiet pint at the weekend 'losers'?


I ask why they need a quiet pint. Or two. Or five. So, nearly half the population of the UK like a quiet pint at the weekend? If you say so. And you have forgotten to mention how many like to go and get hammered at the weekend, who block up A&E departments thought the land, or the ones that get quietly drunk at home, just drunk enough to give the wife a beating. And we mustn't forget the ones who have their quiet pints and then kill someone while driving home. Or what about the ones who have quietly drunk enough to need a liver transplant? You speak as if all the alcohol in the country is consumed by quiet pint drinkers at weekends. That's just tripe. Neither have you explained quite why these 'quiet pint' types feel the need to consume their quiet pints. It is pints BTW for the vast majority. Is that information available from the Office For National Statistics? How many of these 25 million spend their time sitting moping in a pub talking about football to other pointless individuals? A bit selective in your statistics, ain'tcha. :roll:

But where is the 'evidence' that I am embittered and may have a story to tell? I acknowledge I am disappointed by the society I find myself living in, but IMO, so would any rational person be.
Pacifists cannot accept the statement "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.", despite it being "grossly obvious."
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SpannerGeek
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by SpannerGeek »

You still haven't explained why, in your humble (sic) opinion 25 million social drinkers are 'losers'.

Shakespeare put it a little better than your own John Wayne quote:

Hoist own petard.
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by Vorpal »

Argue nicely, please

:) :)
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Mick F
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by Mick F »

Shootist wrote:I ask why they need a quiet pint. Or two ................
Did you read my thoughts and think about them?
Shootist wrote:Why do people need to take drugs to 'enjoy themselves', 'relax', enjoy the company of others;?
Mick F wrote:There are degrees of everything. Some folk are further along the road than others.
Personally, I have an anxiety problem. Maybe a stress problem? It depends on how you define it. It's not a big problem, and is un-noticeable by folk who don't know me. Give me a pint of beer, and I'm fine. No more, just the one pint to relax me. Any more and I'll be getting too relaxed. :lol:

No doubt there's a prescribed drug that would do it too, but whatever the "drug", it'd sort me out.

Some folk have a huge problem and "need" all sorts of stuff to get their heads straight. Trouble is, it can - and usually does - become addictive. Believe me, I understand them.


It seems you don't understand.
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Post by irc »

SpannerGeek wrote:You still haven't explained why, in your humble (sic) opinion 25 million social drinkers are 'losers'.


Because we are all one small step away from being drunk drivers and wife beaters who will soon need a liver transplant. Part of the modern politically correct intolerance where some people think their way is the only way. See also helmet zealots, some politicians, and many health campaigners. If you hold an opposing opinion you aren't just disagreeing you are evil, or stupid. Perhaps both.

Despite the 25 million people drinking themselves into an early grave, killing their wives and killing people in their cars life expectancy carries on rising. Society is pretty good. Not perfect by any means but the phrase all things in moderation (including booze but not fags) is a good philosophy to live by.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mortality-ageing/mortality-in-england-and-wales/average-life-span/rpt-average-life-span.html
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mortality-ageing/mortality-in-england-and-wales/average-life-span/rpt-average-life-span.html
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