Cycling trips for work, refused payment, legal standpoint?

[beardy]

play them at their own game.
she might as well start walking. her employer may not have to pay a mileage allowance, but they do have to pay travel time (incl. to/from first/last visit).

Yet a lot of them are not doing so, despite only paying minimum wage and therefor falling foul of minimum wage regulations. For some reason the authorities largely ignore this.
Another little trick which the employers utilise is to use a nominal (and totally unrealistic) average travel time between trips. The authorities ignore this violation of minimum wage law too. If using a car it should also make the employer liable for speeding prosecutions as it would be impossible to complete within the speed limit. It seems that having an average which is unacheivable rather than a specific, gets them off the hook

[NUKe]

Her employer legally doesn't have to pay her mileage for car or bicycle. She is however entitled to the An allowance per mile which she can at least claim the tax back on.
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefit ... es-for-tax
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... allowances.

Tell your friend to join a Union. Care work is slowly becoming one of those grey area of employment, with the worst pay, the worst hours and the most overworked staff.

[Vorpal]

I would think that it is worth her pointing out to her employer that HMRC Mileage allowance for bikes is 20 p per mile. They may be unaware that there is one.

I was once in a situation to point out to an employer that the allowance for motor vehicles had changed (I think it went from 40 p to 45 p or something like that?). And as soon as they were made aware, they began paying employees at the new rate.

Also, she can claim the tax relief for business mileage retroactively for up 4 years.

[[XAP]Bob]

Also what rot is this about cyclists not having to pay for fuel - we do.

It's just that a banana gives us more miles than it does to a truck.

[PH]

play them at their own game.
she might as well start walking. her employer may not have to pay a mileage allowance, but they do have to pay travel time (incl. to/from first/last visit).

I think that's partly right. A test case in the Court of Justice of the EU decided that all such time should be a part of the Working Time Directive, which the UK is bound by. But they left it to national regulation to decide whether such time would be paid. In a UK case it was decided that the time spent traveling from one client to another should be paid, but the time traveling from home to the first place of work and home again was excluded.

For example, in the 2014 case Whittlestone v BJP Home Support, the employment appeal tribunal (EAT) held that the NMW applied to the time spent by a care worker travelling from one client to another, but not to the time she spent travelling between clients and home.
Source:
http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2015 ... ys-expert/

There is a rather sneaky way for unscrupulous employers to get around this, which is to consider different locations as different periods of employment rather than a continuous one, split shift as it used to be called. The cleaners at a place I used to work were treated like this, appealed and lost. Disgraceful.
For the original question, the employer is bound by what is in the contract, that can be overruled if a court or tribunal considers it unfair, but it would be a slow and expensive process. Something a union might consider, but beyond most individuals.

[blackbike]

Her employer legally doesn't have to pay her mileage for car or bicycle. She is however entitled to the An allowance per mile which she can at least claim the tax back on.
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefit ... es-for-tax
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... allowances.

Tell your friend to join a Union. Care work is slowly becoming one of those grey area of employment, with the worst pay, the worst hours and the most overworked staff.

Joining a union doesn't really work for many of our new class of poverty wage workers.

A union can't help much if you are easily replaceable or you are on a zero hours contract and your employer can just give you zero hours work for a few weeks to punish you if you make any fuss at all about your poor treatment.

[tatanab]

Also what rot is this about cyclists not having to pay for fuel - we do.

The car allowance covers more than just fuel, it is a contribution to running costs. Non cyclists think cycling is "free", then I tell them that my tyre cost alone is around 2p per mile, plus of course chain wear etc.

[Tonyf33]

play them at their own game.
she might as well start walking. her employer may not have to pay a mileage allowance, but they do have to pay travel time (incl. to/from first/last visit).

As I've stated, she doesn't get paid for the time going between jobs, nor do those going by car, it's the actual allotted time for each individual service user that they get paid for, nothing more.
If routes are done properly and people aren't going on sick* the travelling should be minimal, however another friend who is now working for the NHS started as a careworker and did so for many years told me how even within a relatively small area carers would be criss crossing each other all the time
*as with the vast majority of British workforces people go sick at the drop of a hat and the typical response by employers is everyone else has to take up the slack with no thought to havinga plan to avoid that or have a casual/bank staff to call upon.

I'll try to get her terms of employment (if she has one!) and then if need be I'll pay CAB a visit, as I've said, if everyone else are being paid for using their personal transport and she is not then that to me is unfair contract terms, I understand there's no legal obligation to pay but I can't see how it is legal to exclude one when it is a vehicle in law and costing money to run/maintain.
thanks all for replies.

[fastpedaller]

I'd feel inclined to just put in a claim for car mileage and see if they spot it!

[Bensons]

Once you have a copy of the employment contract the ACAS helpline would be a good place to start - it is free.

[pete75]

Her employer legally doesn't have to pay her mileage for car or bicycle. She is however entitled to the An allowance per mile which she can at least claim the tax back on.
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefit ... es-for-tax
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... allowances.

Tell your friend to join a Union. Care work is slowly becoming one of those grey area of employment, with the worst pay, the worst hours and the most overworked staff.

Joining a union doesn't really work for many of our new class of poverty wage workers.

A union can't help much if you are easily replaceable or you are on a zero hours contract and your employer can just give you zero hours work for a few weeks to punish you if you make any fuss at all about your poor treatment.

A bit like the lock outs employers used to force workers to accept lower wages in days past. Over the past 30 years there seems to have been a steady movement towards the sort of employment terms which led to the birth of the trade union movement.

[jgurney]

As for mentions of a union, no chance and she couldn't afford to pay a subscription even if she wanted to,

Subs for a part-time care worker in GMB are £1.70 per week, which includes insurance against being sued by a client. They fall to 5p for any week in which the member has no income due to sickness or having no hours if on zero-hours. People in jobs like your friend's have few employment rights, but they do have some and GMB are pretty good at standing up for those.

If you mean she would not join a union even if the fees were not an issue, then she is part of the authorship of her own and others misemployment.

[pete75]

As for mentions of a union, no chance and she couldn't afford to pay a subscription even if she wanted to,

If you mean she would not join a union even if the fees were not an issue, then she is part of the authorship of her own and others misemployment.

+1

[tyreon]

I would not claim for car mileage allowance if I didn't have a car. That employer will not be stupid. She could next be up for theft and get a criminal record. The JP

could put her away. The only crims who get away with it are the Bankers,MPs and those who adjudicate the legal system.

Don't bother with a regular union. The all seem ineffectual(but for the RMT?) There's funny goings on happening in them all. Its another food trough. I hear funny things are/have happened in UNISON.

There's some irregular workers funded union that's pro active. Can't give you more info. Research it. It may be more supportive.

If she tries to dispute her terms...she could win...or be blacklisted. Get her out of that work ASAP

[[XAP]Bob]

Also what rot is this about cyclists not having to pay for fuel - we do.

The car allowance covers more than just fuel, it is a contribution to running costs. Non cyclists think cycling is "free", then I tell them that my tyre cost alone is around 2p per mile, plus of course chain wear etc.

Yes, but fuel costs us too, it's just that we don't sink petrol...