No Lights

[nobby]

What is normal I wonder?

I don't regard crime as something we should have to expect,however normal it becomes.
Though I expect cycling to be normal, however criminal it becomes.

It gets to be normal enough and it stops being a crime.

[reohn2]

What is normal I wonder?

I don't regard crime as something we should have to expect,however normal it becomes.
Though I expect cycling to be normal, however criminal it becomes.

It gets to be normal enough and it stops being a crime.

[thirdcrank]

The senior police officer ?Detective Superintendent Ray Mallon? did not get the sack for for advocating zero tolerence policing. There was some sort of inquiry about alleged irregularities by detecteives under his command - nothing proven if I remember correctly, he decided to retire and then stood and was elected as Mayor. Since a mayor, elected or otherwise, has no direct say on policing, he was able to advocate so-called zero-tolerence without being able to do much about it.

I'm afarid this is the old, old story: who decides what the police will do? (If they are dealing with unlit cyclists, they are not doing whatever else somebody might think was important.)

It used to be local politicians, through the Watch Committee and similar who made those decisions, but that led to so many scandals it was all handed to chief officers to free them from political influence. That resulted in some strong-minded men (and they all were men) who did as they liked, and the politicians were happy to hide behind the 'operational independence' of the police to avoid blame themselves. More recently, govt., both central and local has had its fingers in the pie, and chief officers have learnt to curry favour.

(None of this explains or excuses bone-idleness on the part of some police officers in tackling day-to-day stuff but they are a minority - most run to stand still.)

[Sares]

What I really find quite weird about this behaviour is that some of us(small number that we are)on here have had the same experience, myself included, so I can only conclude that it is happening all over the country.
That being the case and these incidents not being isolated, the police must see this going on too,so why don't they issue fixed penalties and instructions to walk home if only for the lunatic's safety if nothing else.
Its the poor motorists I feel sorry for who hits one of these camaflaged morons, not a pleasent experience I'll bet.

Where are the police?

I agree that it's very unwise from a self-preservation point of view to cycle without lights at night, and also clearly illegal. However, from the motorist point of view, you should be driving such that you can see your stopping distance at night. It's illegal for cyclists but not for pedestrians to be unlit, and likewise trees which have fallen across the road and other similar hazards do not carry warning lights. This comes back to the old CTC campaign against mandatory rear lights, that drivers should always be able to avoid hazards/people even if they are unlit. I would consider both the cyclist and the driver fully responsible in this situation.

[JohnChell]

Mythical wrote "I nearly hit a guy on a bike with no lights on, who was on the wrong side of the road, yesterday. He just appeared from behind a parked van, was narrowly missed by me and continued to meander down the wrong side of the road with his knees stuck out like a chav. But they're all over the place here. Coventry is a student city and bikes are a cheap way to get around" I sympathise

I also cycle in the Coventry area, I agree there are a lot of poeple with a death wish out there! I nearly hit one the other week, Dark wet evening, rural A road, dark clothes, no lights etc. I nearly ran ran right into the back on him as he wobbled along the gutter. I was cycling home and I have reasonable front lights on my bike. But I only saw it was a cyclist ahead of me at the last moment and had to brake hard. I see alot of this on my way home, especially between a large factory in a rural location and the edge of town, Once I'm in the town most of the bikes without lights seem to be ridden on the pavement. It's good to see bikes being used but it seems some people would rather chance a couple of miles on the road and then ride on the pavement than buy even a basic set of lights.

Is it just me who gets really ****ed off when I'm cycling through traffic, we all stop for the pedestrian crossing, just to find that the pedestrian stopping the traffic is someone on a bike without lights riding accross from one pavement to the other.

Some laws, such as cycle lights and pavement cycling should be enforced a bit more often

[reohn2]

What I really find quite weird about this behaviour is that some of us(small number that we are)on here have had the same experience, myself included, so I can only conclude that it is happening all over the country.
That being the case and these incidents not being isolated, the police must see this going on too,so why don't they issue fixed penalties and instructions to walk home if only for the lunatic's safety if nothing else.
Its the poor motorists I feel sorry for who hits one of these camaflaged morons, not a pleasent experience I'll bet.

Where are the police?

I agree that it's very unwise from a self-preservation point of view to cycle without lights at night, and also clearly illegal. However, from the motorist point of view, you should be driving such that you can see your stopping distance at night. It's illegal for cyclists but not for pedestrians to be unlit, and likewise trees which have fallen across the road and other similar hazards do not carry warning lights. This comes back to the old CTC campaign against mandatory rear lights, that drivers should always be able to avoid hazards/people even if they are unlit. I would consider both the cyclist and the driver fully responsible in this situation.

I can unerstand trees not having any responsibility,though I'd have to take issue with you about cyclists and pedestrians.
You seem to be saying that say on a totally unlit road in pitch black, that cyclists and pedestrians should be allowed to wander to and fro across fast roads without every worrying if anything is coming or not,and that the onus is totally on the motorist,a position that needs clarifing.

[thirdcrank]

Although it is not an offence for pedestrians to walk about dressed in black in the dark, they would inevitably find the compo was reduced if they were hit by a car.

The car diver has a duty of care to the pedestrian - keeping a good look out, driving at a safe speed to stop etc., - and the pedestrians duties are outlined in the Highway Code: wearing light coloured clothing at night etc.

It's the dreaded 'contributory negligence' which leads to insurance companies endlessly dragging their feet and lawyers making their livings..

As I've mentioned bofore on here, in West Yorkshire and probably elsewhere it is routine that the police photograph the clothing of fatal/potential fatal accident victims so they can cover the point in their report to HM Coroner.

[ThomasDylan]

A couple of weeks ago I came across a paper boy doing his morning round, by bike, without any lights. I was turning right onto a main road - both roads unlit. He was approaching from my left. The only reason I saw him was that he was momenteraly caught in the headlights of a car in the distance. The lights picked up the bag over his shoulder.

He'd no lights, and no obvious reflectors. Also his clothes were dark. The bag wasn't particularly reflective, with no reflective strips, but at least was a bright yellow and shiny.

To do something about this sad state of affairs, track down which paper shop he delivers for and either:

1) Tell the shop you will report them to the council department responsible for child employment. Employers are duty-bound to ensure their paper deliverers are working safely
or
2) Report the shop directly to the Council

If no response, try talking to your councillor.

Make all contact IN WRITING or follow up any meeetings in writing.

[james01]

You can get a basic set of LED flashing lights for under a fiver. There's no excuse for unlit cycling. It would be better if we had the German law, that all bikes other than specialist lightweight sports machines should be street legal for 24 hours usage, day or night, & must have a dynamo.

[Mythical]

You can get a basic set of LED flashing lights for under a fiver. There's no excuse for unlit cycling. It would be better if we had the German law, that all bikes other than specialist lightweight sports machines should be street legal for 24 hours usage, day or night, & must have a dynamo.

They have LED lights in the pound shop. I bought 2 sets when my Sister and I got caught out in the dark, recently and the one that's on the back of my bike is brighter than the relatively expensive rear light I had to replace!

[nobby]

Is it just me who gets really ****ed off when I'm cycling through traffic, we all stop for the pedestrian crossing, just to find that the pedestrian stopping the traffic is someone on a bike without lights riding accross from one pavement to the other.

I don't know if it is just you but it doesn't bother me.
Is it an annoyance if the bike is being wheeled? Sometimes it is the safest way to cross the road and, of course, you shouldn't cycle on a pedestrian crossing unless it is a toucan although the Highway Code says do not rather than must not.

[stoobs]

"Where are the police?"

If you want to know, they're doing really important stuff like stopping people from taking wood from the beaches along the south coast!

[stoobs]

Oh yes...

Much as I don't condone or agree with the practise of riding without lights, and find it astonishing that the ones I have seen also seem to wear dark clothes AND have no reflectors, and even find it mildy annoying in a "that's silly" kind of way, I nevertheless don't understand why this seems to exercise some motorists so much - enough to think all cyclists are rubbish, and to do something aggressive about it.

I do about 20-30k a year (sorry folks, and no, that's not on my bike!), so I have a fair bit of road exposure. I also don't hang about. I don't find it generally too difficult to steer or brake for vulnerable road users, and do actually wonder what all the fuss is about from the motoring lobby. I can only assume that the brigade who think this too difficult from the comfort of a nice recliner in a metal box are also the ones who find it too difficult to expend energy from their finger to the indicator whenever they change lane or turn!

[Sares]

I can unerstand trees not having any responsibility,though I'd have to take issue with you about cyclists and pedestrians.
You seem to be saying that say on a totally unlit road in pitch black, that cyclists and pedestrians should be allowed to wander to and fro across fast roads without every worrying if anything is coming or not,and that the onus is totally on the motorist,a position that needs clarifing.

The motorist is the one who has the potential to cause the damage, so yes, I think they cannot escape the moral responsibility to drive such that they can stop in time. I don't mean that walkers should stand in the middle of the road in black, but your position seems to be that they must dive onto the verge every time a car comes along (what they in practice generally do on country roads in the dark) because the motorist doesn't need to be able to stop in the space illuminated. They both bear responsibility, not just the walker who "Should" wear light clothing and hi-viz and so should horses, by the way! but is not required to carry any lights. The driver's responsibility to walkers is not observed by many, many, drivers.

[james01]

The driver's responsibility to walkers is not observed by many, many, drivers.

You're right. It's become the norm to drive around blind corners as though there is a guaranteed clearway for the motorist. Where there is no footway, pedestrians have the right to walk on the road. However, I can think of plenty of local rural A and B roads where this would be most unwise, even in broad daylight. I feel far safer cycling than walking in these circumstances.
We're losing that most fundamental of rights : to proceed in safety on foot from one village to another along the queen's highway.