I once saw an old lady crossing a road where she had right of... oops, priority. The car turning in did not slow...until she held her bag of tins at windscreen height on an outstretched arm. Cars really can stop on a sixpence! And they do when their paintwork is threatened.
No Lights
This advice is for fit adults only....Unlike some walkers, walk facing the traffic, and then just stand your ground and act erratically, but be ready to jump out of the way. Basic physics eliminates the chances of being hit. It's kind of like, but only kind of, adopting the primary position. Timidity loses, and assertiveness wins. Even if you have to move quickly, it upsets the driver more than it upsets you, because you were ready. The driver assumes that you will move out of the way of his tank, but standing your ground shakes all of his perceptions.
I once saw an old lady crossing a road where she had right of... oops, priority. The car turning in did not slow...until she held her bag of tins at windscreen height on an outstretched arm. Cars really can stop on a sixpence! And they do when their paintwork is threatened.
I once saw an old lady crossing a road where she had right of... oops, priority. The car turning in did not slow...until she held her bag of tins at windscreen height on an outstretched arm. Cars really can stop on a sixpence! And they do when their paintwork is threatened.
The bit about walkers is half off-topic, but not really. Several people were saying how horrified they were that cyclists would go unlit, and almost that they deserved what they got if they were hit. (((I wanted to point out that many road users are Not required to be lit, and that they are not considered on the roads. And I think they are even more fundamental than cyclist rights. So it does relate to the rest.)))
What I really meant there was that yes, cyclists have the responsibility to have lights, and drivers have the responsibility to be able to avoid unlit people/objects on the road, of which there are numerous legal examples including walkers. These two responsibilities are independent and don't cancel out the other. Therefore where a driver who hits an unlit cyclist, both have failed in their duties, and both are at fault, the driver at least as much as the cyclist.
What I really meant there was that yes, cyclists have the responsibility to have lights, and drivers have the responsibility to be able to avoid unlit people/objects on the road, of which there are numerous legal examples including walkers. These two responsibilities are independent and don't cancel out the other. Therefore where a driver who hits an unlit cyclist, both have failed in their duties, and both are at fault, the driver at least as much as the cyclist.
Last edited by Sares on 23 Jan 2008, 9:47pm, edited 1 time in total.
stoobs - I think "point" would be putting it a bit strongly. I just saw two concurrent conversations, one (rightly) criticising unlit riders, and the other trying to figure out why they don't seem to show up in the accident statistics much, with no mention of each other.
Apologies if the comment seemed inappropriate.
Apologies if the comment seemed inappropriate.
Not at all. No apologies needed - I was just trying to clarify, and I apologise if my posting seemed terse - I just wanted to check what you were hinting (?) at.
I don't know whether the moderator powers-that-be could/should meld these threads.
To quote you, perhaps they don't "show up" in the statistics because they don't "show up"? Perhaps there's a pile of them somewhere?
Whichever thread, and being a West Susssex non-statistic, I'm afraid that I have absolutely no faith in the statistics of West Sussex police. When knocked off (witnessed) and having to visit A&E, they didn't breathalyse the driver, and they didn't take any kind of proper statement, so I had to handle it myself.
My wife was stationary in her car at traffic lights was rear-ended, and she was breathalysed. I know the policy, so why wasn't my accident dealt with properly? Had I not needed an ambulance, I'd have told them how to do their job properly myself.
Cyclists don't count, and their statistics are totally duff.
A slight issue on lighting, is that while I've seen the odd one without lights at night, my own headlights are so powerful that it has caused me little problem - and this is the case for 99% of cars on the road these days.
If you challenge "pure" motorists as to when and where they saw one, they tend to be extremely vague on time and place, so my contention is that a lot of the statements should be taken with a pinch of salt.
My father-in-law goes apoplectic about unlit cyclists, but goes even more so when pushed to provide a time and a place. Good sport, but bad politics!
I don't know whether the moderator powers-that-be could/should meld these threads.
To quote you, perhaps they don't "show up" in the statistics because they don't "show up"? Perhaps there's a pile of them somewhere?
Whichever thread, and being a West Susssex non-statistic, I'm afraid that I have absolutely no faith in the statistics of West Sussex police. When knocked off (witnessed) and having to visit A&E, they didn't breathalyse the driver, and they didn't take any kind of proper statement, so I had to handle it myself.
My wife was stationary in her car at traffic lights was rear-ended, and she was breathalysed. I know the policy, so why wasn't my accident dealt with properly? Had I not needed an ambulance, I'd have told them how to do their job properly myself.
Cyclists don't count, and their statistics are totally duff.
A slight issue on lighting, is that while I've seen the odd one without lights at night, my own headlights are so powerful that it has caused me little problem - and this is the case for 99% of cars on the road these days.
If you challenge "pure" motorists as to when and where they saw one, they tend to be extremely vague on time and place, so my contention is that a lot of the statements should be taken with a pinch of salt.
My father-in-law goes apoplectic about unlit cyclists, but goes even more so when pushed to provide a time and a place. Good sport, but bad politics!
My dad can tell you exactly when he saw the source of all this road danger it was in Alfreton (Derby) in 1972.
Somebody pointed out you can get a pair of LEDs for a fiver. Lovelly things I have loads of them but they do not satisfy the legal requirements.
This winter I have seen more unlit cars driving than unlit cyclists. I have always assumed that they had just forgotten to turn their lights on. I can not assume the same of cyclists can I.
Somebody pointed out you can get a pair of LEDs for a fiver. Lovelly things I have loads of them but they do not satisfy the legal requirements.
This winter I have seen more unlit cars driving than unlit cyclists. I have always assumed that they had just forgotten to turn their lights on. I can not assume the same of cyclists can I.
this evenings haul:
1 cyclist with a red light on the front
1 cyclist with no lights at all,dressed in black on an unlit cycle path. Happily he had a reflector on which gave me just enough time to stop. I mean - you'd think if you were cycling inthe dark with no lights and you saw a set of lights bearing down on you, maybe you wouldn't position yourself right in the middle of the path eh?
Happily I've always spotted these cretins in time, but I don't fancy a head on collision with a bike at a combined speed of 20-30
1 cyclist with a red light on the front
1 cyclist with no lights at all,dressed in black on an unlit cycle path. Happily he had a reflector on which gave me just enough time to stop. I mean - you'd think if you were cycling inthe dark with no lights and you saw a set of lights bearing down on you, maybe you wouldn't position yourself right in the middle of the path eh?
Happily I've always spotted these cretins in time, but I don't fancy a head on collision with a bike at a combined speed of 20-30
- archy sturmer
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 4 Mar 2007, 12:47pm
- Location: St Albans, Herts
I occasionally use an unlit track on my way home from work, and with a Smart twin headlight can easily see my way.
I have stopped being surprised at the number of lightless cyclists I meet coming the other way - how can they see where they're going, and why do some of them insist on riding in the middle of the track?
Perhaps they assume that because I can't see them I can't hit them.
One of them even complained my lights were dazzling him the other day!
Grr.
- AS
I have stopped being surprised at the number of lightless cyclists I meet coming the other way - how can they see where they're going, and why do some of them insist on riding in the middle of the track?
Perhaps they assume that because I can't see them I can't hit them.
One of them even complained my lights were dazzling him the other day!
Grr.
- AS
That's not a recent photo, by the way
Do the laws about cycle lights apply to bikes on cycle paths?
Your light could well have cost the cyclist his night vision ability. This is not a very nice thing to do to someone. You feel justified because you think he should have lights on his bike. However if the law does not stipulate any such thing then you are to blame for being a nusciance to someone who is legally going about their business. Better be sure of your facts. I had a similar encounter with a car driver who said he didnt have to dip his headlights because bicycles shouldnt be on the road anyway
Your light could well have cost the cyclist his night vision ability. This is not a very nice thing to do to someone. You feel justified because you think he should have lights on his bike. However if the law does not stipulate any such thing then you are to blame for being a nusciance to someone who is legally going about their business. Better be sure of your facts. I had a similar encounter with a car driver who said he didnt have to dip his headlights because bicycles shouldnt be on the road anyway
- archy sturmer
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 4 Mar 2007, 12:47pm
- Location: St Albans, Herts
meic wrote:Do the laws about cycle lights apply to bikes on cycle paths?
Your light could well have cost the cyclist his night vision ability. This is not a very nice thing to do to someone.
What's the law got to do with it?
If he hasn't got any lights on I can't see him.
Maybe everyone should go about without lights so as not hamper anyone else's "night vision ability"
That's not a recent photo, by the way
-
Tom Richardson
- Posts: 772
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007, 1:45pm
Sorry to go back to the walking thing, but I've found that motorists find it a lot easier to pass me safely if I walk with a couple of walking poles with the sharp ends sticking out towards the traffic. Maybe there a principle that could be applied to cycling. A couple of sharp objects sticking out of your bike could be safer for passing motorists than lighting your bike.