Touring Cyclist Club

[andymiller]

I'm not sure what information Google would get from a captcha code on its own. I'm no expert, but I seriously doubt that Google would try to smuggle tracking code into a captcha - the regulators would be all over them and the bad publicity really wouldn't be worth the risk.

90 percent of the traffic to my site comes from Google searches and in my view if you want people to find you then you need to live with Google. You can go 'off-grid' by making your page no-index but I think that would be self-defeating.

You can choose whether to use Google Analytics and Google AdSense code. Google Analytics is useful but not essential (you could use clicky instead).

....... (eg where is Buckingham Palace?).

Buckinghamshire somewhere, I should think.

I was conscious that this wasn't a good example as you want a question that is very hard for a person to get wrong - eg 'in which country does the Tour de France take place?'

[robgul]

I'm not sure what information Google would get from a captcha code on its own. I'm no expert, but I seriously doubt that Google would try to smuggle tracking code into a captcha - the regulators would be all over them and the bad publicity really wouldn't be worth the risk.

90 percent of the traffic to my site comes from Google searches and in my view if you want people to find you then you need to live with Google. You can go 'off-grid' by making your page no-index but I think that would be self-defeating.

You can choose whether to use Google Analytics and Google AdSense code. Google Analytics is useful but not essential (you could use clicky instead).

....... (eg where is Buckingham Palace?).

Buckinghamshire somewhere, I should think.

I was conscious that this wasn't a good example as you want a question that is very hard for a person to get wrong - eg 'in which country does the Tour de France take place?'

My personal view is that we can go with Google Recaptcha ... the concern and wanting to do some testing (which we've been doing with seeded responses since the site was built a couple of weeks ago) was based on the paranoia that exists with certain prolific posters who would perhaps get excited about Google being involved! ..... we'll probably switch it over during Tuesday.

... being pedantic your TdeF question is not perfect - one could often answer Spain, Belgium, Italy ... even Yorkshire (oops that's not a country ... yet ) and still have a correct answer!

Rob

[mjr]

Googles new Recaptcha v2 simply asks the person to tick a box.
1% of users then have to go forwards to a more difficult test: select which pictures of 9 show cats only (for example).

Takes 2 minutes to implement on any site. Would be worth it to stop people moaning...

Asking for equal access for disabled people is "moaning" to you?

Google's new Recaptcha is still basically disability discrimination (can you see this or hear that), plus the current version requires script execution permission which brings other problems (power consumption, untrusted programs), although I'd tolerate scripting for one-off registration and the "select the cats" type of eye test is one I personally find easier than the read-a-jumble type.

Really, captcha is a flawed approach with nasty side-effects. If you want to stop spam, you need to test for spamminess, not physical abilities.

[robgul]

Googles new Recaptcha v2 simply asks the person to tick a box.
1% of users then have to go forwards to a more difficult test: select which pictures of 9 show cats only (for example).

Takes 2 minutes to implement on any site. Would be worth it to stop people moaning...

Asking for equal access for disabled people is "moaning" to you?

Google's new Recaptcha is still basically disability discrimination (can you see this or hear that), plus the current version requires script execution permission which brings other problems (power consumption, untrusted programs), although I'd tolerate scripting for one-off registration and the "select the cats" type of eye test is one I personally find easier than the read-a-jumble type.

Really, captcha is a flawed approach with nasty side-effects. If you want to stop spam, you need to test for spamminess, not physical abilities.

I know what Abraham Lincoln (or John Lydgate, his inspiration) would now post.

Rob

[700c]

Asking for equal access for disabled people is "moaning" to you?

I work with Deaf Blind. We've had really good results with the v2 captcha.

Further reading:
http://simplyaccessible.com/article/googles-no-captcha/

[robgul]

Asking for equal access for disabled people is "moaning" to you?

I work with Deaf Blind. We've had really good results with the v2 captcha.

Further reading:
http://simplyaccessible.com/article/googles-no-captcha/

Take a look at the forms - the Recaptcha is now live - we used the "light" version which seems more readable than the white on black option.

The SEND button sits over a small part of the Google stuff, varies depending on your device (but makes no difference) We are trying to use out-of-the-box components as much as we can so don't envisage changing any code that may be possible to reposition the captcha

Rob

[700c]

The SEND button sits over a small part of the Google stuff

Visforms is not ideal, looks like it clears using:

Code: Select all

<p class="visCSSclear"><!-- --></p>

so if you add one of those after the end </div> that contains the recaptcha code, all should be well.
Or (put another way) just before this:

Code: Select all

<div class="visBtnCon">

[mjr]

I work with Deaf Blind. We've had really good results with the v2 captcha.

Further reading:
http://simplyaccessible.com/article/googles-no-captcha/

Yeah, I've seen it before and that's review's bizarre. It mainly considers the front door checkbox, barely touches the actual test and seems rather dismissive of the total equality failure of that ("may be a challenge still"???).

[robgul]

The SEND button sits over a small part of the Google stuff

Visforms is not ideal, looks like it clears using:

Code: Select all

<p class="visCSSclear"><!-- --></p>

so if you add one of those after the end </div> that contains the recaptcha code, all should be well.
Or (put another way) just before this:

Code: Select all

<div class="visBtnCon">

Thanks - I'll keep a note of that in case anyone complains - the issue is if there's an update (as there was yesterday) to the component it sometimes changes css or language files which is a bit of a pain to keep track.

Rob

[simonhill]

I had a quick look at the website and only then realised that this was part of an ongoing debate with the CTC.

Just to clarify, is the problem that the CTC are dropping the touring info sheets, etc that they used to maintain?

If so, how will the new site provide this info and, far more importantly, how will they keep it up to date?

I ask, because in the past, I only looked at a few of the CTC info sheets and they were so out of date to be useless and misleading.

[robgul]

I had a quick look at the website and only then realised that this was part of an ongoing debate with the CTC.

Just to clarify, is the problem that the CTC are dropping the touring info sheets, etc that they used to maintain?

If so, how will the new site provide this info and, far more importantly, how will they keep it up to date?

I ask, because in the past, I only looked at a few of the CTC info sheets and they were so out of date to be useless and misleading.

The first statement isn't quite correct - it is NOT part of the CTC/Cycling UK debate.

The initiative is founded on the dissatisfaction that so many (we've had hundreds of responses) people have with CTC and the issues aired on this Forum and elsewhere - that have been going on for many years.

The potential is to form a new club dedicated to all matters cycle touring - staying away from politics, motoring criticism etc - and as part of that creating and maintaining useful information related to cycle touring. [Personally, I too have been disappointed at the out-of-date and very poor collection of "touring resources" that CTC has (sort of) had in the past ... some nuggets but as you say often misleading and old]

We're still in the planning and asking for ideas (and offers of help bringing various skills) stage - do go to the MY ideas input on the website and have your say - http://www.touringcyclistclub.org.uk

Rob
(TCC webmaster)

[robgul]

Touring Cyclist Club - a progress report is in the UPDATES at http://www.touringcyclistclub.org.uk

The website has received over 6,000 hits, over 100 applications to join the Forum, 184 "I'm interested" responses and 63 "My ideas" responses - and a lot of messages from cycle tourists welcoming the Touring Cyclist Club project.

We have :

- created the initial structure for the website content
- created the structure for the Forum
- investigated a membership format
- entered negotiations for a member's insurance product

.. and we're asking for interested people to join a steering group to drive it all forward.

We're hoping to have much more fleshed out by early May.

Please take a look at the website at http://www.touringcyclistclub.org.uk - and send your expression of interest, ideas or content for the club's resources.

Rob

[robgul]

Our incoming mailbox at Touring Cyclist Club is overflowing today with "angry" "disgusted" "complete shock" "a disgrace" messages about the CTC rebrand now that Cycle mag has hit the doormats ... this message is typical (from a current CTC member):

We have been cycle touring for many years and have watched the CTC hi-jacked over recent years. The rebranding announced today was a complete shock and not something I support. Looking for a more focussed club, not a charity, dedicated to touring.

... watch this space .... and the link below

Rob

[andymiller]

Our incoming mailbox at Touring Cyclist Club is overflowing today with "angry" "disgusted" "complete shock" "a disgrace" messages about the CTC rebrand now that Cycle mag has hit the doormats ... this message is typical (from a current CTC member):

We have been cycle touring for many years and have watched the CTC hi-jacked over recent years. The rebranding announced today was a complete shock and not something I support. Looking for a more focussed club, not a charity, dedicated to touring.

... watch this space .... and the link below

Rob

Hmm as someone who has no particular axe to grind I can't help feeling that there's a bit of over-reaction going on here. 'Disgusted'? I can't say the name fills me with enthusiasm but this isn't 1878. Calling it 'a disgrace' just sounds a bit silly.

Personally I always found the word 'club' off-putting, and there are an awful lot of cyclists who don't go cycle touring.

And a complete shock? I'm sure you were posting about it weeks ago.

[robgul]

Our incoming mailbox at Touring Cyclist Club is overflowing today with "angry" "disgusted" "complete shock" "a disgrace" messages about the CTC rebrand now that Cycle mag has hit the doormats ... this message is typical (from a current CTC member):

We have been cycle touring for many years and have watched the CTC hi-jacked over recent years. The rebranding announced today was a complete shock and not something I support. Looking for a more focussed club, not a charity, dedicated to touring.

... watch this space .... and the link below

Rob

Hmm as someone who has no particular axe to grind I can't help feeling that there's a bit of over-reaction going on here. 'Disgusted'? I can't say the name fills me with enthusiasm but this isn't 1878. Calling it 'a disgrace' just sounds a bit silly.

Personally I always found the word 'club' off-putting, and there are an awful lot of cyclists who don't go cycle touring.

And a complete shock? I'm sure you were posting about it weeks ago.

The "complete shock" comment is a quote in one of the messages we've had come in from the people who have only seen Cycle mag today - not from us, we've known all about it for ages.

Rob