Cycling UK Forum

dim wrote:
I think that the companies here in the UK deliberately use crappy tar so as to stay in business

after years of complaining, I finally found someone who spilled the beans. Its actually allegedly been an EU directive that reduced the amount of proper tar in the mix, to reduced the harm to health of road workers from inhaling the volatile compounds. Thats why modern tar smells less tarry, a little like the difference between creosote and it's replacement creocote. Additionally, the amount of recycled aggregate which is generally lighter than the older hard stone aggregate, means the substance of the tarmac crumbles easier under the higher axle weights. Brand new roads are failing within 12 months now because of this. I'm all for saving the environment, and as a manual worker myself, I fully support protecting hewman elf and safety. But I wonder if there's a third way, more automation in the laying process and the routine use of BA. Nowadays it's routine for workers to be trained up in BA. Then better quality tar could be used that doesn't allow water to permeate the tarmac, and doesn't melt at 30DegC.

fullupandslowingdown wrote:. Its actually been an EU directive.

Great, so potholes will start to disappear at the end of January. Suppose we all knew the EU were to be blamed, though our PM needs to be informed of another of the EU's failings (NB. He'll love this one, as killing a few more from the lower classes to reduce potholes' does seem to be a fair trade off )

gbnz wrote:

wearwell wrote:They are appalling in Derbyshire..... +tory district council.:

Hmm, unsual for a District Council to have responsibility for repairing pot holes . Maybe the EU should be blamed?

County council most likely, depending on the road. https://www.potholes.co.uk/claims/responsible_for_road

fullupandslowingdown wrote:

dim wrote:
I think that the companies here in the UK deliberately use crappy tar so as to stay in business

after years of complaining, I finally found someone who spilled the beans. Its actually been an EU directive that reduced the amount of proper tar in the mix, to reduced the harm to health of road workers from inhaling the volatile compounds. Thats why modern tar smells less tarry, a little like the difference between creosote and it's replacement creocote. Additionally, the amount of recycled aggregate which is generally lighter than the older hard stone aggregate, means the substance of the tarmac crumbles easier under the higher axle weights. Brand new roads are failing within 12 months now because of this. I'm all for saving the environment, and as a manual worker myself, I fully support protecting hewman elf and safety. But I wonder if there's a third way, more automation in the laying process and the routine use of BA. Nowadays it's routine for workers to be trained up in BA. Then better quality tar could be used that doesn't allow water to permeate the tarmac, and doesn't melt at 30DegC.

Chatting to an old lady yesterday and she blames UK flooding on road maintenance; poor quality materials blocking drains which are not cleaned and dredged etc etc. She didn't get around to blaming the EU but she would have, given a cue.
Weird that people can just make up their own view of facts without looking for any evidence.
Is there any evidence about the "crappy tar" hypothesis?

fullupandslowingdown wrote:Its actually been an EU directive that reduced the amount of proper tar in the mix, to reduced the harm to health of road workers from inhaling the volatile compounds.

Does the EU directive actually say to reduce the amount of tar in the mix or just workers' exposure to the volatiles (genuine question)? Often there is a directive about something & it is the UK's faulty interpretation/implementation of it that causes the problem.

Be careful of what you wish for.

In Hampshire there be semi-automated, road patching trucks which pootle around spewing a bitumen & chippings mix into potholes and worn road edges.

For a "spot" repair this tends to be left with a distinct raised dome.

For wider areas & lengths the finished surface is always very uneven ( no roller to finish ).

My mad conspiracy theory is that the destruction of roads ( for cycling ) is a deliberate attempt to put people off cycling before the mad "active-transport" lobby manage to steal any more of the god-given motorists budget.

dunno, but you'd imagine that someone who had worked on the roads for 25 years would know what they were talking about.... how long has boris been in politics?
Seriously though, the EU have in some areas led to higher health and safety standards, though bizarrely behind in others such as animal wealthfare. Certainly the claim about tar seems credible to me given that you can't buy creosote from B n Q anymore. Me mum claims that her local councilor was excusing the lack of road repairs locally on the fact that to remove the original tarmac would cost too much because it was a high tar content mix and would require extensive protective measures. But that did sound a little like hogwash to me at the time. So maybe the EU tar directive has been yet another anti EU story made to cover up the industry using cheaper and cheaper tarmac to cut costs even though roads are costing millions to make and mend.
But on the other hand I've not seen winters that have been harsher than 40 years ago, so how do we explain the rubbish performance of roads nowadays? They aren't lasting, and it's not a "I'm getting older as ecilops get younger" thing.

Does anyone else find it strange that the government is always short of money for road repairs when:
1, the population is increasing and,
2, the unemployment rate is decreasing
3, the money comes from TAX that everybody working pays.

Therefore logically there should be MORE money available not less.

Unless somebody's 'kin lying.