building a new audax bike help

[webber]

I'm building a new audax bike and I'm having trouble with the frame I'm going to condor cycles at the weekend as I quite fancy there fratello which brings me to the problem do I go disc brakes or not I'm trying to build a steel audax but would like to keep it as light as possible without going silly and discs seem to add a lot of weight with out any reel need as side pull brakes are more then good enough most of the time I will be using it mostly for audax events spotives and some long distance cycle paths also any other frames must be steel and a nice carbon fork no more then about £800 any help would be great

[Brucey]

for your use I would favour a bike with rim brakes for the reasons you describe, plus such a bike can (ought to) ride better than one with discs on it.

Spa cycle's audax bike is worth a look BTW.

cheers

[honesty]

I have a Thorn audax bike. The frame is a little heavier than other audax models out there and in my view is more towards the touring end or the audax spectrum. Saying that, its a lovely bike. With 28mm tyres on at the moment its wonderfully comfy and I've cycled along sustrans style gravel tracks with it with no issues.

[old_windbag]

I built up a spa audax frameset with bits from my old racing bike. I can say that the spa audax frame and fork is very nice indeed, also quite light with F+F around 2.45kg in 54cm. It's low cost and has all relevant rack/mudguard mounts. But is only rim brakes, but I have tektro deep drops and they seem pretty close to my road bike calipers( campag ). My build weighed in at about 10.5kg but I know I could have built lighter with an SRAM groupset, but I was re-using parts not building 100% new. Anyway worth a look I feel.

Forgot to add, I think the new genesis equilibrium framesets also now come with rack/mudguard mounts plus the option of the disc version too. Slightly more expensive than the spa but again worth a look.

[pwa]

Disc brakes have their uses, but I would not choose them for a bike intended for Audax. The reason is not weight. It is comfort. Audax is partly about endurance, keeping going at a steady pace over distances that many would consider excessive. For that you want to minimise discomfort. For me that means choosing a fork that is a bit springy, as well as tyres that offer decent cushioning. Unfortunately disc brakes require less springy forks. You can compensate by having larger volume tyres, but then you are looking at tyres better suited to touring rather than dashing around at a good lick. So I would go for dual pivot rim brakes and learn how to change rims every few years if you don't know already.

I don't know the Condor but I have heard others speak highly of it. I ride a Spa Titanium Audax, which is good so long as out of the saddle sprints are not your thing. It's better with 25mm tyres than 28mm, with mudguards, because the latter give too little room on muddy lanes.

[reohn2]

The problems with using dual pivot brakes that work effectively(57mm drop)is they limit tyre size to 28mm(actual size),with mudguards.
Discs won't have the same tye restrictions with the right frameset.
Though they'll be heavier,the penalty isn't huge,I'd estimate 500g no more and possibly less.
Of course if you're looking for lightest possible bike and aren't concerned about limited tyre size,then go for DP's,they are good stoppers and if fitted with decent brake pads stop well enough in the wet.

[reohn2]

Disc brakes have their uses, but I would not choose them for a bike intended for Audax. The reason is not weight. It is comfort. Audax is partly about endurance, keeping going at a steady pace over distances that many would consider excessive. For that you want to minimise discomfort.

One word changes that belief,Hypers

[pwa]

Disc brakes have their uses, but I would not choose them for a bike intended for Audax. The reason is not weight. It is comfort. Audax is partly about endurance, keeping going at a steady pace over distances that many would consider excessive. For that you want to minimise discomfort.

One word changes that belief,Hypers

I'm no speed merchant, but on Audax events the people who seem to get round easiest seem to me to be on 23 - 28mm tyres. For something more relaxed than Audax |I would happily consider wider (frame / fork / brakes allowing). I speak as someone who needs every little advantage I can find.

[Brucey]

...Forgot to add, I think the new genesis equilibrium framesets also now come with rack/mudguard mounts plus the option of the disc version too. Slightly more expensive than the spa but again worth a look.

agreed, worth a look, but an older equilibrium I looked at struggled with 25mm tyres and mudguards; maybe the latest ones have slightly larger clearances.

cheers

[Brucey]

The problems with using dual pivot brakes that work effectively(57mm drop)is they limit tyre size to 28mm(actual size),with mudguards.

come back centre pulls, all is forgiven....?...

Discs won't have the same tye restrictions with the right frameset.
Though they'll be heavier,the penalty isn't huge,I'd estimate 500g no more and possibly less.
.

I think that is about right, but you often can't tell exactly, because there may or may not be hidden weight in the 'disc version' of 'the same frameset'. Sometimes the 'disc version' is different everywhere, other times it is more or less the same as the non-disc version, which can (for example) mean that the ride quality and weight in the non-disc version are not quite as good as they could be.

cheers

[old_windbag]

Yes Brucey they ( genesis ) seem to state they've added 5mm extra clearance on the chainstays..... and on both disc and nondisk frameset reckon it takes "28c tyre plus 40mm full length mudguard". So looks good but sadly too late for my choice .

[old_windbag]

A couple of other frame/bike companies I looked at prior to getting the spa, were in the states:-

http://www.somafab.com/bikes-frames/frames quite good prices

http://www.rodbikes.com/ expensive but beautiful

The soma smoothie( or smoothie es.. extra smooth ) looks very nice but when I viewed it was only available in a coffee colour( fom the name ) yuk. Now the smoothie is black and the extra smooth es is in blue, a little better .

[PH]

I have a steel Audax style bike (SOMA ES) and steel tourer (Hewit Cheviout SE) both 9 speed triples, both steel forks, if I put the same wheels and tyres on them it’s hard to tell the difference. The mini V brakes on the Hewitt are at least as good as the deep drop calipers on the SOMA. IMO the only major difference between them is the restriction in tyre size 28mm on the SOMA and 32 on the Hewitt (With the mini Vs)
So, if I was looking for versatility, considering it’s also getting used for long distance paths, I’d consider a tourer and build it up light.

[PH]

The soma smoothie( or smoothie es.. extra smooth ) looks very nice but when I viewed it was only available in a coffee colour( fom the name ) yuk. Now the smoothie is black and the extra smooth es is in blue, a little better .

The SOMA ES is very nice, I imported mine via Ebay USA which is of course a risk, but it was slightly cheaper than a Spa frame so I took the chance.
It’s the deep red which looks great except the ES might as well stand for easily scratched! It’s 4 or 5 years old and already due for a respray (Powdercoat)

[FarOeuf]

I rode a 200km audax on Sunday, with 2000m climbing and averaged 26kph. I was riding 32mm tyres (60 PSI, because I'm heavy), on a 12kg bike. I've been through a bunch of frames over the past few years, and all sorts of stems, bars, wheels, etc, looking for an endurance setup. I'm currently very happy with the Surly Pacer (no mudguards). But if (and when) I change it I'll begin with the tyre width, because that makes the biggest difference, I've found, in terms of endurance riding.

The difference between my Surly Pacer and the Surly Trucker (disc) was only really noticable in the way the Pacer lifts the front wheel easier (shorter chainstays), not in terms of real overall speed. And stick 37mm tyres on the Trucker and it's a great 300km per day bike. I put 28mm tyres on the Pacer, and then after a few rides put on 32mm tyres and won't be going narrower.

For audax, fast audax, the frame itself isn't so important (other than it fits well). Tyres are an order of magnitude more elastic than the frame, fork, spokes, etc. I'd begin with tyre width (wider tyres = lower pressure, faster rolling, fewer punctures and more comfort) and then rule out any frame that won't take your tyres. That should get rid of quite a few 'audax/sportive' bikes.

you don't need 'light' to make it round reasonably quickly.

cheers,