Increasing restrictions on conveying cycles on trains

[Kernowboy]

We are all aware of the Eurostar debacle, and more recently the withdrawal of the DB Bhan City Night Line and reduced SNCF inter cities night trains. In the UK GWR now require booking on all HST services from 16th May 2016 and today we hear on this forum that Abellio are reducing the number of spaces on the West Coast service and they also require booking in advance.

Has the increasing amount of restrictions on conveying cycles on trains both in the UK and Europe, and the ability to be flexible with your travel arrangements, made you consider a folding bike for touring? I have given serious thoughts to touring on an Airnimal Joey Explore, but slightly put off by Bikepackers experience of lugging panniers and bike onto trains?

[andymiller]

'Debacle' is putting it a bit strongly. It could be a prelude to withdrawing facilities for the transport of undismantled bikes as new rolling stock is introduced, but when I went to book I had the choice of putting my bike in a box, or booking a space for an undismantled bike - so, at least for the moment, arguably the transport in boxes is providing additional spaces. If you have a bike with fancy paintwork you might even prefer to use the box.

If an airlines lent people boxes to transport their bikes I think a lot of cyclists would be over the moon.

I must admit I had the impression that you already had to have bike reservations for GWR services. (Not that they ever check).

[jgurney]

I had the impression that you already had to have bike reservations for GWR services. (Not that they ever check).

Yes, GWR have required reservations for long-distance route for some years, and I have several times had my reservations checked by staff.

[Richard Fairhurst]

At present (and up until the May timetable change), reservations are required for some GWR long-distance (HST/180) services, and optional for others. From May, reservations will be compulsory for all such services.

The official line is that this brings them into line with other long-distance operators. However, there are more lines where GWR high-speed services are the only service available. For example, if you want to go from London-Birmingham without booking onto a Virgin train, you can always catch a London Midland service. In the North-West, you can often catch a Transpennine or Northern service, and so on. But for much of the GWR network, there's no such choice.

I'm just glad I have a good folder!

[Bmblbzzz]

I had the impression that you already had to have bike reservations for GWR services. (Not that they ever check).

Yes, GWR have required reservations for long-distance route for some years, and I have several times had my reservations checked by staff.

I think it depends on the rolling stock used for each service rather than the distance, though I'm not sure about that. At any rate, reservations are certainly not required on eg Bristol to Malvern, Southampton to Cardiff or Cardiff to Taunton services – in fact, they are not even possible on those trains!

I've never personally had a reservation checked on either GW or XC, but that might be down to chance as much as anything else.

[Kernowboy]

Interesting responses on peoples experience of booking / not booking and whether reservations are ever checked, however with the upgrading of rolling stock it seems that reservations will be compulsory in the near future.

Richard what do you consider to be a decent folder?

[andymiller]

Reservations can be an irritation - particularly if say you miss your train and have to catch the next one (but again, in practice I've not had a problem with this). However I think it's important not to put people off travelling by train by giving an overly gloomy picture. I've travelled a lot between London and the West Country with GWR over the years, and I've never had a problem reserving a place for my bike - I can remember only one occasion when I went to book a place on a train only to find there were no bike places. I generally travel off-peak and during the week so other people's experience may be different.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Mine's a Bike Friday New World Tourist. 20in wheels, tough enough to go offroad but forgiving enough to get the miles in - and with a big (56T) front ring you're never spinning the pedals as you would on a Brommie. The fold is a bit ungainly but small enough for the end-of-carriage luggage racks. (I soon learned to forget the Bike Friday standard pannier rack, though, which really restricts the fold. I now have a Xootr Crossrack, which only takes one pannier but keeps the small fold.)

Mrs F's folder is an Airnimal Chameleon, which has 24in wheels, so it's not so compact a fold, but GWR guards seem happy with it. And it goes like stink, it really does - easily the fastest bike in our household. Narrow tyres, so not ideal for off-road cycling (though we did the Swiss sections of the Rhine Cycleway on it with only one puncture), and 24in tyres are pretty rare. But it's a beautiful bike.

[Annoying Twit]

I've never made a booking for a bicycle. But after reading this thread I've just done so. I'm travelling on Saturday on a journey with one change, both legs on Crosscountry. They say on their website to make the booking through their facebook page, which I've done.

[Nigelrojo]

These restrictions are disrupting the development of a viable (and highly desirable) integrated transport system involving an efficient transition from bike to train and vice-versa. This transition needs to be as seamless as possible, and anything requiring the use of cardboard boxes to pack bikes in is just not acceptable if this strategy is to develop properly and become a real alternative to using the car. I assume the train companies are introducing these restrictions to maximize profit; in which case it is up to governments to legislate, and to enforce the provision of spaces for "roll-on, roll-off" assembled bicycles on trains. That would show genuine commitment to environmentally-friendly transport. Don't hold your breath!

[Kernowboy]

+1 for Nigelrojo's post, a requirement for fully integrated transport system, that includes fully assembled cycles, could easily be incorporated in rail franchise tenders.

Andy, I was not intending to be negative with regard to conveying cycles on trains, I am a keen supporter of cycle touring using trains; I travelled by train from Cornwall to Passau last summer to ride the Danube trail, returning from Vienna via Munich, Amsterdam, Hook of Holland, Harwich, London to Truro. From this December the Amsterdam / Munich City Night Line is being withdrawn so this will not be possible in future . Eurostar would have been easier in hindsight (last year). However the requirement to box my bike (assuming I can't book an assembled bike space) would be a challenge for me as my Thorn Raven has a very upright position (long steerer tube, racks and mudguards) and Eurostar dispatch staff have gone on record saying that "Dutch style", which i assume means upright, bikes would probably not fit into their supplied box. There is then the issue that most TGV's only take two bikes or the option of a bag 1200 x 900, again my bike wouldn't fit.Hence my OP was more about having reluctantly to reconsider my touring bike, the Raven would always be my first choice but the hassle with trains is forcing me to reconsider.

For this year my wife and I are taking the Plymouth / Roscoff ferry, TGV from Morlaix to Paris, and TGV to Metz to ride the Moselle route, we will see how it goes!

Richard, Thanks for the response on your folders, from my research and a ride on an Airnimal Joey at Bikefix, I think this is the best compromise between the quality of ride, being the most important, and the flexibility of travelling on trains. I just still have some worrying niggles about the limited choice of 24" tyres.

[Bmblbzzz]

Has any ToC actually proposed the compulsory use of boxes for bikes?

[jgurney]

anything requiring the use of cardboard boxes to pack bikes in is just not acceptable if this strategy is to develop properly and become a real alternative to using the car.

Yes, and ditto these horrible contraptions which require all baggage to be stripped off the bicycle so it will fit. They make loading on at intermediate stations challenging even for the fit and determined.

I assume the train companies are introducing these restrictions to maximize profit

Sadly not, as that would be easier to campaign over. The root cause is pressure of demand. There are more people than ever trying to use trains, and investment to seriously increase capacity is lacking. Train operators caught in the middle are trying to improve passenger capacity on existing trains, which tempts them to reduce bike-carrying capacity to fit in more seats.

in which case it is up to governments to legislate, and to enforce the provision of spaces for "roll-on, roll-off" assembled bicycles on trains. That would show genuine commitment to environmentally-friendly transport.

But there are few votes to be gained by taking steps seen as meaning there are fewer seats on crowded trains. There is a need for a more general increase in the railway's capacity, to remove that pressure for on-board space.

spaces for "roll-on, roll-off" assembled bicycles

The question of where that space should lie - inside passenger coaches or in a separate area, as on HST's and the London-Norwich route, needs to be addressed so campaigners can give a clear message on what is wanted.

[brianleach]

The problem I find is booking the best price ticket via the trainline and then finding there are no bike spaces available.

I intended to take the bike from Winchester to Castle Cary and then cycle to Glastonbury. On enquiring I found there was no space on my intended train and the price of the ticket on which the space was available was twice the original one. If I had had more time it would have been easier to cycle direct!!

Similarly I am taking the bike on the train to Aberdeen for a short tour of the Orkneys. No problem booking the two outward legs but on the return journey I had to rebook via London rather than coming back direct to get a reserved space for both legs. Not the end of the world but a little more inconvenient.

On the other hand I can get to France or Spain without any booking on South West Trains.

[andymiller]

@kernowboy - yes I know how you feel.

I used to be able to travel to Italy on the Paris-München sleeper. Then DeutscheBahn axed that.

This year I'm going to travel by the SNCF sleeper to Nice and then on to Ventimiglia. But I can't go back on that train because the service is being cut. But still there's the DeutscheBahn sleeper back from München to Amsterdam. But that's going to get cut at the end of the year.

So yeah I can see the attraction of a folder.

One option that is worth considering is arranging for a hotel to store your bike bag. Alternatively there's a foldable bike bag like the Ground Effect Tardis. This folds down into a package that will easily go in the post (OK not actually through a letterbox but you know what I mean) and in the past I've posted it to a hotel at my destination.

If I get a chance, when I'm at the eurodispatch office next week I might just ask for some info on the size of the boxes. Maybe even take a photo. In retrospect I should have opted for the box option just so I could pass on information about it.

The problem I find is booking the best price ticket via the trainline and then finding there are no bike spaces available.

I think you may be making life harder for yourself then it needs to be. I've always booked tickets and bike spaces in one operation on the First Great Western website. I don't think I've bought tickets from the rebranded site (gwr.com) but I'm assuming that the basic system is still the same . I would very much doubt that the fares on trainline are cheaper than booking direct.