£700 and what to buy - Genesis Vapour?

whoknows? · Post by **whoknows?** » 29 Jan 2008, 10:21pm

Hi,

I'm new to this forum :oops:

(and bikes for a while), I've got £700 in my pocket and I'm currently trying to find a new bike that will last me. I want it for all sorts of things but mainly commuting and some light trails. However, at the end of this year I'm going to be doing LEJoG so I want it to be suitable for that i.e. to carry some extra weight without any problems.

I've been looking around various places and trying to find some information on a suitable bike. I have come across the Genesis Vapour but I can't many people who have commented on it. What do people think? Is this a bad choice or should I be going for something else?

Any advice/suggestions welcome

Thanks.

PS. I'm hoping to buy it soon so that I can start getting used to it as my current bike is a 10 year old mountain bike.

fatboy · Post by **fatboy** » 30 Jan 2008, 8:25am

Have you thought about a Dawes Galaxy, or something similar. Touring workhorse that they are they are pretty good at commuting and will cope with light trails. I have a Dawes Horizon which is the poor mans Galaxy but it does the job suberbly well and I just love riding it. In comparison to your 10 year old MTB you'll think that it's got a rocket attached!

Obviously this would also be perfect for your LEJOG.

Spa cycles do some good deals
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p0

Looks like you could get a Super Galaxy for £700 as well.

whoknows? · Post by **whoknows?** » 30 Jan 2008, 8:55am

Thanks for that. I've heard the Dawes Galaxy mentioned before on one or two other people.

What are the advantages of this over the Vapour?

fatboy · Post by **fatboy** » 30 Jan 2008, 9:19am

Obvious ones that come to mind are better gear range (important for touring with luggage), racks and mudguards (Which can be taken off). The Genesis may not even have holes for racks which could be an issue for LEJOG. It's probably got more stable steering and will definitely not have toe overlap which the Genesis may have.

Touring bikes are generally considered to be "slow" by roadies and flimsy by MTBers. Both are wrong to a degree. Yes of course a tourer isn't as fast as a full on racing bike but the average person won't really notice the difference in the time taken to get anywhere. Also the flimsy tag is mis-placed because they can do some off-road stuff but obviously not as much as a full-on MTB.

I genuinely believe that most people if they had only one bike would be best off with a tourer so that's why the Galaxy type bike is the best for most people. Generally the biggest problem for most people is the cost and availability since they are quite niche (apart from on this forum!).

I hope that helps.

fatboy · Post by **fatboy** » 30 Jan 2008, 9:20am

I forgot to add that the Galaxy has bar-end shifters which are not to everyone's taste but they mean that you can easily fit a bar-bag. Mind you I have STI gear shifters and love them.

Willpower · Post by **Willpower** » 30 Jan 2008, 9:52am

fatboy wrote:Obvious ones that come to mind are better gear range (important for touring with luggage), racks and mudguards (Which can be taken off). The Genesis may not even have holes for racks which could be an issue for LEJOG. It's probably got more stable steering and will definitely not have toe overlap which the Genesis may have.

The vapour takes mudguards and a rear rack, but has no lo-rider bosses, which may or may not be a problem depending on how you are plannig to do your lejog.

It seems that those on this forum will always answer this type of question with "Dawes Galaxy" which may be for a number of reasons:
1) Herd instinct.
2) They all work for Dawes.
3) They're right.

However, according to the Genesis catalogue that just happens to be on my desk, Genesis frames are Guaranteed for life (whatever that means) whereas Dawes ones are only guaranteed for three-five years depending on material.

fatboy · Post by **fatboy** » 30 Jan 2008, 10:04am

So the Genesis has holes for racks etc so that's good. I'd still be worried about LEJOG with luggage with such a high bottom gear - 37". Whilst it could be lowered a bit with a different cassette there are limits to what the mechs can withstand.

The frame guarantee does seem to be good and Genesis are part of Ridgeback (I think) who have a very good reputation. I actually think that I could enjoy that sort of bike myself rather than an MTB I'm just not sure that it's quite right for the OP.

whoknows? · Post by **whoknows?** » 30 Jan 2008, 12:01pm

So the Genesis has holes for racks etc so that's good. I'd still be worried about LEJOG with luggage with such a high bottom gear - 37"

Is that the only issue that you think there would be with this bike? So if after a while I found that I need to buy a new cassette to give the extra gears then I could do this. The frame guarantee with the Genesis is a big plus.

After I do the LeJog I don't think I'll be carrying as much load as that for awhile. Just long weekends.

whoknows? · Post by **whoknows?** » 30 Jan 2008, 11:00pm

I think I'm swaying towards the Genesis due to what I've read from the web site it seems to be more suited to a more off road muck.

Is there any major disadvantage in going for a bike with carbon forks?

My only concern is I rode one the other day (only around the car park at the bike shop) 56 frame and my feet were overlapping the front wheel. Is this something to be worried about? Would I have the same problem with the Galaxy? I tried a bike with a 58 frame and felt I was too stretched out. (I'm a shade until 6 foot).

horizon · Post by **horizon** » 30 Jan 2008, 11:57pm

Well here it is.

This is quite an interesting question and one that keeps coming up when bike shops push their cross bikes to people wanting a combination of fast touring with off road - there have been several threads like this. Are people just attracted by the look or does it really have something to offer? For the OP, it might make a good commuting bike, but will it do LEJOG? I think all the usual things point against it - the high gears, lack of carrying capacity, straight forks, no mudguards but this is all for touring. What is really going on here? Are people choosing these bikes for speed and a bit of off road (i.e. cycle paths on the way to work) and ignoring the downsides for touring? Or are bike shops pushing an attractive looking bike on customers actually looking for a tourer? Any views anyone?

Post by Si » 31 Jan 2008, 9:59am

My only concern is I rode one the other day (only around the car park at the bike shop) 56 frame and my feet were overlapping the front wheel.

It is if you are going to use it off road on anything that is at all trechnical!

Also, check the BB height - cx bikes sometimes have a higher one than road bike - makes clearences off road better, but if riding fast on road it might change the handling a tad.

I'd look at it all like this:

-for touring the galaxy (or others of that ilk) will be great
-for commuting the galaxy (or others of that ilk) will be great
-for off road the galaxy (or others of that ilk) will be acceptable (many of the previous generation of cycloX rider used to use an old tour before the big companies realised that they could make more money by making the bespoke cX bike)

-for touring a cX bike may be OK, but might have more flex, less comfort and less luggage carrying capacity
-for commuting a cX bike may be good, assuming it will take guards and a bit of luggage
-for off road the cX bike should be good (although note above about toe over lap)

epicurus · Post by **epicurus** » 31 Jan 2008, 10:09am

There are exceptions, but for the most part, it is as simple as

cross bike = "new" = cool

tourer = "old" = dorky

When I spoke to one LBS a couple of years ago, asking specifically for a light tourer, I was steered towards a "comfort road bike" and away from an audax machine, even though the latter was clearly more suitable for my needs. When asked what was wrong with the audax machine, the only reason given was "it looks like a tourer".

I went to another LBS, because I did a lot of bike riding in my younger days and my bullsh*t detector was activated. Less confident buyers will be swayed by this sort of thing.

I don't mean to imply that everyone who buys a cross bike makes the wrong choice; just that many who do are misled.

whoknows? · Post by **whoknows?** » 31 Jan 2008, 11:49am

horizon wrote:
For the OP, it might make a good commuting bike, but will it do LEJOG? I
think all the usual things point against it - the high gears, lack of carrying capacity, straight forks, no mudguards but this is all for touring.

As the LEJOG will be a one off, I was just concerned that I didn't want to be left with a bike that was more suitable for that and not for taking down a few dirt tracks on a weekend and commuting (but that might just be my lack of knowledge of the difference with all the bikes out there!).

What is really going on here? Are people choosing these bikes for speed and a bit of off road (i.e. cycle paths on the way to work) and ignoring the downsides for touring? Or are bike shops pushing an attractive looking bike on customers actually looking for a tourer? Any views anyone?

From my experience of going into a few bike shops when I said my price range they showed me the Ridgeback Voyage. When I raised the question of its suitability for light off-road they recommend the Genesis Vapour. As they said you could and racks to the back and mud guards. What do you think the max weight would be that I could carry before I start having probems with the gears?
I also like the fact of the frame guarantee that was mentioned earlier.

From the concerns that have been raised around the suitability of the Vapour for LEJOG. Now I need to find an alternative if this one isn't going to be suitable.
Is the Dawes Galaxy that good a bike, as it gets a lot of mentions, or are they other alternatives out there?
Just had a quick look on Evans and there is the Ridgeback Horizon does anybody know much about this (Although as I've read the spec further it does say its an Aluminum frame which some people have said is a down side)[/quote]

fatboy · Post by **fatboy** » 31 Jan 2008, 12:01pm

Whilst the Ridgeback Horizon is supposed to be quite a nice bike it wouldn't really be able to go off road since it's on 700x23c tyres.

As for the Ridgeback Voyage vs the Vapour it actually has wider tyres than the Vapour so I don't see why it wouldn't work off-road. Indeed you could take the rack and guards off and fit the same tyres as the Vapour and you'd have something that would be great for off-road with the added advantage of nice low gears. So the tourer can be nice and flexible.

You mention whether things are aluminium or steel, well the Vapour is aluminium as well. Mind you given its good guarantee that should rule out one of the usual objections to aluminium i.e. longevity.

epicurus · Post by **epicurus** » 31 Jan 2008, 12:06pm

Can you be more specific about what you mean by "light off road"?

There is a big difference between riding down tow paths, well used relatively smooth off road paths, unmade farm tracks, etc on the one hand, and actually riding over branches, jutting stones, etc in the middle of the woods on the other hand.