N+1 - Carbon Next?

[pickerd]

I'm considering building another bike - N+1 philosophy!
I have Reynolds 501 and 725 plus a great steel Salsa Vaya. I also have a couple of alloy bikes and a lovely titanium Raleigh RSP Ti. These cover single speed, short sprints, touring, hybrid ... to mountain bike.
What next? I fancy carbon.
Looking for something for long day rides or weekend tours on a mixture of paths and back roads - I never ride on great surfaces really. I would probably want to mount mudguards and maybe a rack.
Bars - wide, low drop and reach drops, STI levers
Brakes - would prefer disc but cantis ok
Gears - 2x10 or 2x11 compact or smaller, e.g. SPA - 30/46T being may favourite combination.
I'm also quite large - 6ft and 17st so need something strong.
Budget is up to £600 for frame and fork and I don't mind second hand.

Any 'carbon' ideas?

[reohn2]

Don't buy carbon,you'll more than likely be well over warranty weight limits.

[pwa]

I may be wrong, but to me carbon and offroad don't sit happily together. How long will the shiny surface remain unmarked if you take it on gravel regularly? I know some MTBs are carbon, but it just looks to me like a recipe for trouble. Paul Hewitt was selling a carbon audax style bike able to take a pannier rack and light baggage, though I don't know if that's still being marketed. Not for offroad, though.

[iandriver]

There's no end of Carbon CX frames out there (small example: http://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/frames/cyclocross-frames). I'd be happy banding on guards, but he rack I'm no so sure. Perhaps something more along the lines of bike packing luggage instead.

[pickerd]

Thanks for your replies

Good point about warranty. Does this mean don't buy though? Second hand won't have a warranty, or is it that the carbon bike will not be strong enough for my massive bulk + luggage + terrain?

I may have misled you regarding where I ride - it's back roads and cycle / bridal paths (not really off-road?) - is a carbon adventure / cross bike not suited to this?

I think band-on mudguards + bike packing style luggage will work for me - I've tried raceblade xl's and they seem ok + I have a frame bag.

I've seen the Planet X models, they seem good value - are these any good?

I've also seen a Focus Mares CX on EBay - how does this stack up? E.g. against the Planet X models? There's also a Kona Major Jake on EBay - any good?

[reohn2]

Thanks for your replies

Good point about warranty. Does this mean don't buy though? Second hand won't have a warranty, or is it that the carbon bike will not be strong enough for my massive bulk + luggage + terrain?

Ultimately the choice is yours and obviously there's no warranty S/H, but if you're buying new and spending what I'd imagine would be upward of £1k you'll want something that'll do the job and do it for some time to come,similarly so a S/H bike too,at least I would.

I may have misled you regarding where I ride - it's back roads and cycle / bridal paths (not really off-road?) - is a carbon adventure / cross bike not suited to this?

Yes,really off road,some of the bridleway and byways I ride are as rough as some singletrack,I ride that sort of terrain on a Salsa Vaya and am 4 stone lighter than yourself,wouldn't even consider CF.
My main reason for not doing is that any impact that would perhaps take the paint off or at most dent a metal frame,can completely destroy a CF frame or severly compromise it's strength,and the only evidence could be a small mark or chip on the surface,but if internally fibres and resin are broken it could crack or break without warning,this is particularly relevant to fork steerers. It's why CF frames have such short and specific warranty's and specific weight limits.
Some will say that's alarmist,and those people are entitled to their opinion,but an already over stressed frame or fork carrying more than it's designed to,with added luggage,ridden on rough terrain is IMHO a disaster waiting to happen.YVMV.

I think band-on mudguards + bike packing style luggage will work for me - I've tried raceblade xl's and they seem ok + I have a frame bag.

I wouldn't trust 'band on' mudguards of the 'Raceblade' type for on road use as they're dislodged/moved far too easily,due to the nature of their fittings,so I certainly wouldn't trust them on rough terrain,again YVMV.

Off tarmac I want at least 20mm of clearance between tyre and mudguard for off road use.

I've seen the Planet X models, they seem good value - are these any good?

I've also seen a Focus Mares CX on EBay - how does this stack up? E.g. against the Planet X models? There's also a Kona Major Jake on EBay - any good?

I can't comment on those bikes.

[PH]

What a great collection of bikes you have. I can't see what you're hoping a new bike offers that isn't already well covered.
And I think starting with the frame material is a poor way to choose a bike, unless the aesthetics are top of your list.
From what you describe the prototype Ti Spa bike that’s been mentioned here several times sound ideal, though it'll be way over your budget.
Though much of it’s capability you will already have covered.

[pickerd]

Mmm all good stuff and I'm glad I posted before buying.
It's made me think about what I really want ...
I have really enjoyed riding the RSP Ti on the road - it's lightweight and very responsive - it's been a revelation for me.
Don't get me wrong, the Salsa Vaya is also great for touring but it isn't particularly responsive.

I think I was after something responsive but that could also handle cycle paths and bridal paths.

[reohn2]

Mmm all good stuff and I'm glad I posted before buying.
It's made me think about what I really want ...
I have really enjoyed riding the RSP Ti on the road - it's lightweight and very responsive - it's been a revelation for me.
Don't get me wrong, the Salsa Vaya is also great for touring but it isn't particularly responsive.

I think I was after something responsive but that could also handle cycle paths and bridal paths.

You'll have to define 'responsive'
If you mean light and stiff,then those aren't the requirements for a 'rough stuff' off road bike of the type you seem to be describing ,IMO.
The problem seems to be a want for N+1 without any real need YVMV.

FWIW,I find the Vaya(I have two)a dream bike for the kind of riding you describe,tough,predictable,comfortable,big clearances,ridden on 40mm Vittoria Voyager Hypers it float over bad surfaces.With m/guard fittings,three bottle bosses,front and rear rack fittings,it ticks all the boxes for me.Not light at 12kg(with m/guards),but more than made up for by it's comfort over long distances,I went through a few bikes before ending up where I am,I've no need to change.

[Vantage]

Any 'carbon' ideas?

Life insurance.

[foxyrider]

I have an Al Mares CX as my touring/commute/offroad bike and it's brilliant, The cf variants are pretty good machines but I certainly wouldn't want to buy a second hand cf bike - there has to be a reason for the sale!
If you do go CF there are ways of fitting racks and guards without using band on set ups from the likes of Tubus and ambrosio.
Machines like the Planet X London Road are pretty good - the street for which it's named is notorious hereabouts for its diabolical surface (designed to keep southerners out!) even my full CF sportive bike can live with it. The majority of anti CF people haven't actually got any experience of the machines so don't be too put off by their comments.

[pickerd]

I have an Al Mares CX as my touring/commute/offroad bike and it's brilliant, The cf variants are pretty good machines but I certainly wouldn't want to buy a second hand cf bike - there has to be a reason for the sale!
If you do go CF there are ways of fitting racks and guards without using band on set ups from the likes of Tubus and ambrosio.
Machines like the Planet X London Road are pretty good - the street for which it's named is notorious hereabouts for its diabolical surface (designed to keep southerners out!) even my full CF sportive bike can live with it. The majority of anti CF people haven't actually got any experience of the machines so don't be too put off by their comments.

Thanks Foxyrider. You have given me some hope that what I'm after is feasible. I'll have a look at London Road frames.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my D5803 using hovercraft full of eels.

[the snail]

This one from planet x looks like it fits your criteria:
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FROOBBB/on ... l-frameset

[PH]

Thanks Foxyrider. You have given me some hope that what I'm after is feasible. I'll have a look at London Road frames.

Unless I've missed something, the London Road is an aluminium frame?

[PH]

The majority of anti CF people haven't actually got any experience of the machines so don't be too put off by their comments.

You mean like

I certainly wouldn't want to buy a second hand cf bike - there has to be a reason for the sale!

That would be enough to put me off.