Ben@Forest wrote:I can't help but notice that you're posting from a country which has rejected (by referendum) EU membership twice. And apparently there's still only around 30% who would vote to join.
I'm British. This makes me a "bleedin' immigrent" with no rights to influence a referendum here in Norway should the Norwegian people decide to consider the question again.
I had no doubt you are British (you've made that clear over the last couple of days). What I meant was you clearly enjoy living in a country which is not in the EU - despite the various pros and cons why would other people not enjoy living in another 'outside the EU' country.
The pleasure of living in Norway has more to do with things like cheap day care, schools that test less and put social integration of all children higher on the agenda. In our case access to nature and some nice views where we live. Fresh water and fresh air. Walking to work is a nice plus too. None of these have anything to do with Norway being in or out of the EU.
To be honest I personally see no advantages for me that Norway is out of the EU. In fact it makes my cycling and car hobbies somewhat more expensive as most of the stuff I need I have to buy from abroad. When the package crosses the border you have to pay VAT and/or import duties on all such purchases (including postage) over 350 crowns. The administration charge that the post companies charge to work out how much VAT/import duties you pay is between 15 and 25 pounds per package. So if your package costs 40 quid then you pay 15 quid on top of that + VAT/import duties. That's a bit of a downer for me, but I work round it by stocking up when I visit family and friends in the EU.
So it would be fine with me on a personal level if Norway decided to apply for full membership of the EU. I realise it might not be so good for other parts of Norwegian society and/or the farming sector.
Last edited by syklist on 27 Jun 2016, 4:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ben@Forest wrote:I can't help but notice that you're posting from a country which has rejected (by referendum) EU membership twice. And apparently there's still only around 30% who would vote to join.
I'm British. This makes me a "bleedin' immigrent" with no rights to influence a referendum here in Norway should the Norwegian people decide to consider the question again.
I also don't think we have any similar political party which has commanded (pro rata) as much support as the Norwegian Progress Party.
Yes we may be more divided, less respectful of authority, less generous in spirit to those who have 'made bad life choices' and are definitely fatter - but if we're such a crap place why do so many people want to come here?
The Norwegian Progress Party is actually quite different to the right wing protest parties in other parts of Europe. For one thing, it is a well established party integrated into the political scene, not a mushroom party that has just popped up in the night on the basis of a single issue. I don't like their politics but they're not as reckless or odious as UKIP or the Dutch Partij van de Vrijheid.
As to why people want to come to the UK, I would guess it has a lot to do with easily available English language study courses and the large amount of English language media on the internet. That makes learning the language to a usable level somewhat easier.
al_yrpal wrote:I think all those British people who dont like what Britain is and want to go should go and make a life for themselves elsewhere. If Scotland wants independence they should have it. What we need now is for everyone in Britain to pull together and make our new situation a success.
Al
Yeah like the 48% who voted differently to you should just clear off.
There are many who think that if there are things wrong in their country of birth they should try and change them rather than just abandon the place.
I didnt say that and I didnt mean that. I said "the people who want to go". I would hope that the vast majority of people who voted Remain would accept the democratic will of the majority and pull together to make Britain a better place.
"Yeah like the 48% who voted differently to you should just clear off." Just the sort of mindless distortion we have come to expect.
Al
You're getting good at backtracking.....
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
syklist wrote:The Norwegian Progress Party is actually quite different to the right wing protest parties in other parts of Europe. For one thing, it is a well established party integrated into the political scene, not a mushroom party that has just popped up in the night on the basis of a single issue. I don't like their politics but they're not as reckless or odious as UKIP or the Dutch Partij van de Vrijheid.
I think though that the Progress Party was much further to the right 30-odd years ago and had a stronger anti-immigration policy in the 1970s than UKIP has ever had, but it became more mainstream. Just as the French Front Nationale was odious under Jean Marie Le Pen, is less odious under Marine Le Pen it will probably be mainstream sooner than we think.
Trail Beater wrote:Anyhoo ,Wee Nicky is onto massive Plums if she thinks the EU will give her special treatment.
All the Scottish independence campaign needs is for the EU to have given public assurances that an independent Scotland will be on a fast track to EU membership. That's not much in terms of "special treatment" is it?
The EU are savvy enough to know that Brexit is not going to be solved quickly by the UK itself. So they having a stable independent Scotland within the EU might be regarded as something worth promoting.
It never gave special assurances during the IndyRef and it certainly won't while Scotland is part of a union. Even if Scotland did achieve independence,it still wouldn't be assured. So yes,special treatment required at the mo . I want independence more than anyone,but I'm afraid she is not speaking for me as wanting to be part of the EU
al_yrpal wrote:I think all those British people who dont like what Britain is and want to go should go and make a life for themselves elsewhere. If Scotland wants independence they should have it. What we need now is for everyone in Britain to pull together and make our new situation a success.
Al
We have a pretty good country now and we will have a pretty good country ten years from now. There are racists and other sorts of bigot out there, but they are fewer each year. Most Brexit supporters are not bigots and do not want to see intolerance of minorities. I am sure of that. Outside the formal structure of the EU we will probably end up being on more friendly terms with them. We will have some sort of (roughly) Free Trade agreement and business will pick up again. After a period of short term pain we will see our economy do well. There will come a day when we look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.
What Scotland does is up to Scotland, but I'd be surprised if they voted for independence. They would have no clout in the EU on their own.
Such optimism. Here is an alternative view...not quite as sanguine.
"Overall, Brexit must be understood as a development that will massively accelerate the economic and geo-political decline of the UK. Outside the EU, the UK’s partnership with the US is in question, it’s pre-eminence as a financial hub insecure, and its military capacity significantly curtailed. All of this will only be re-enforced by the continued unwinding of the UK state, which now looks almost inevitable." http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2016/06/26 ... he-crisis/
This is certainly worth reading and I think was written by a former Labour MP David Jamieson.
When reading stuff like that always look at who is writing it, what are they wishing for and through what prism are they looking…
Al
Reuse, recycle, to save the planet.... Auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Boots. Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can...... Every little helps!
al_yrpal wrote:When reading stuff like that always look at who is writing it, what are they wishing for and through what prism are they looking…
Al
Read it and I agree. Seems the writer is looking at things from one side,like an unofficial internet arm of the SNP. I have voted SNP since 1992,but I am dead set against their stance on this. Good read though georgew
Mervyn King, former governor of the Bank of England, was saying yesterday that our exit from the EU does not greatly affect the UK's long term prospects, and that the current financial turmoil should be temporary. He said that the drop in the value of the pound, though triggered by the Brexit vote, was a drop that he had expected for some time, a correction, and was not a problem. He said that both sides had grossly exaggerated things during the campaign.
Sturgeon is saying referendum on Scots breaking away from UK in less than 2 years, just before the final negotiatons of Brexit finish. It's shrewd advice from hey political advisors. Can't see the Scots not embracing it, with Britain in such disarray...
Fracking caused the Saudis and Venezualans to slash the oil price and no prospect of it ever recovering to previous levels. Removal of the Barnet formula subsidy when Scotland goes its own way. Opposition from Spain and other countries will veto Scotlands membership of the EU. And finally all and sundry now making Whiskey. Pretty tough for Scotland to survive in good shape in the face of that lot. Lets hope that Wonder Woman can reach an accomodation with Teresa and those who want to divide us get neutralised. An internal UK split and the upheaval it will cause is the last thing we need in these islands at the moment.
Al
Last edited by al_yrpal on 1 Jul 2016, 9:15am, edited 1 time in total.
Reuse, recycle, to save the planet.... Auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Boots. Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can...... Every little helps!
53x13 wrote:Sturgeon is saying referendum on Scots breaking away from UK in less than 2 years, just before the final negotiatons of Brexit finish. It's shrewd advice from hey political advisors. Can't see the Scots not embracing it, with Britain in such disarray...
Where have you learnt that from? Still just on the table AFAIK
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life
al_yrpal wrote:Fracking caused the Saudis and Venezualans to slash the oil price and no prospect of it ever recovering to previous levels. Removal of the Barnet formula subsidy when Scotland goes its own way. Opposition from Spain and other countries will veto Scotlands membership of the EU. And finally all and sundry now making Whiskey. Pretty tough for Scotland to survive in good shape in the face of that lot. Lets hope that Wonder Woman can reach an accomodation with Teresa and those who want to divide us get neutralised. An internal UK split and the upheaval it will cause is the last thing we need in these islands at the moment.
Al
And we can blame the Tories(from both sides of the referendum divide)for causing it!
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
53x13 wrote:Sturgeon is saying referendum on Scots breaking away from UK in less than 2 years, just before the final negotiatons of Brexit finish. It's shrewd advice from hey political advisors. Can't see the Scots not embracing it, with Britain in such disarray...
Where have you learnt that from? Still just on the table AFAIK
'Sturgeon said this meant a vote would happen inside the two year timeframe of the UK’s departure from Europe - if Scotland can’t reach a deal to maintain its EU relations as part of the UK.'
Scotland won't be allowed easy entry into the EU in fear of encouragement to other separatist movements throughout Europe. So another out of the UK referendum is pretty much a dead cert.
Mind you, Brexit is about as 'separatist' as you can get.
53x13 wrote:... Scotland won't be allowed easy entry into the EU in fear of encouragement to other separatist movements throughout Europe. So another out of the UK referendum is pretty much a dead cert.
Mind you, Brexit is about as 'separatist' as you can get.
Can of worms...
I would agree (now). Initially I was hopeful but the "discourage others" aspect and Spain's response suggest it is not even a possibility.
But I do wonder if SNP talking to EU might find some other "compromise" which has less resistance. And their attitude will undoubtedly make EU more cooperative with Scotland than with rUK.
