Cycling UK Forum

(I've been meaning to bring this to the attention of folk for a while so thought I'd better get round to it.)

I came across this BBC news item which links to a TfGM Consultation Document (129 page PDF - there is also a shorter 24 page Executive Summary) & an online consultation (open until 26 September).

I've not been through things in detail, & not done the survey yet, but it does seem to be potentially positive. TfGM does seem to be broadly pro "active travel" & I think should be encouraged (as well as pointing out where they don't get it right).

As they point out, half of all trips are less than 2km and 38% of those are currently made by car when 1/2 of adults don't get the recommended amount of physical activity & inactivity costs the NHS in GM £35 million - it doesn't say if that is annually but I presume so (Executive Summary infographic p7).

Regards

Rick.

I've lived in Manchester for most of my life and can remember many such strategies and plans.

They are written to provide employment for the authors, not for any other reason.

For all the charts, plans and maps produced over the last 35 years or so all we have got is more cars, more on street parking, fewer bus services especially during off-peak times, more expensive trains, and trains which took bikes replaced by trams which don't.

I think one difference now may be that GM are going to be getting greater control with devolved powers over both transport and health spending which may focus minds a bit more.

Around Bolton/Horwich we seem to have had more buses (every 10 minutes peak, 20-30 mins evenings rather than the previous 20 mins peak, hourly off peak). I'm guessing you are out Oldham way which the trams have made things harder for mixed mode travel there.

There seem to be more at least half-decent cycle routes appearing, at least over this side of GM. Note to self: I must go and check out the path along by the new guided busway over to Leigh sometime soon. I was pleasantly surprised to be able to find a largely traffic free/quiet road route from one side of Manchester to the other over the winter (that was OK on 28mm tyres, at least from Worsley eastwards) - linking canal towpaths, railway trails & park routes (part of this route which was designed for a friend to cycle with her dog & give the maximum opportunity to let the dog free run).

Rick.

RickH wrote:
I'm guessing you are out Oldham way which the trams have made things harder for mixed mode travel there.

I am out Altrincham way, where trams which did not take bikes replaced trains which did in 1992.

The same thing happened a year or so ago on the routes to Oldham and Rochdale. Nothing was learned. No notice was taken of all the calls for bikes to be allowed on trams. For all the fancy plans and strategies for encouraging cycle use, things got worse yet again.

Anyone who is optimistic about the future of public transport and bicycle travel in Manchester is not basing their views on what has happened ever since councils, various quangos and cycle pressure groups took an interest in the matter decades ago.

Manchester is a horrible city for cyclists. Greater Manchester as a whole is horrible for cyclists - so hard to find roads that actually go anywhere that aren't rat runs. I've lived in a number of cities in the Northern half of England and Southern Scotland and always found ok routes through the cities and easy access to enjoyable cycling. I currently live near Bolton but work at a number of hospitals in the region and try to cycle to work whenever possible, but I don't enjoy any of it. I have to get in the car and drive 20 miles north (past the river Ribble) to find nice routes for weekend rides. I never thought I'd ever live anywhere where I'd feel the need to do that.

It couldn't be more different to a city like Sheffield. Even my missus used to be happy to cycle from one side of Sheffield to the other on her own. There's no even a vaguely safe route for her to get 10 miles to Salford Quays here.

With the pathetic public transport around here and silly schemes and the treatment cyclists get, no way will GM ever become cycling city. Too many people, too many cars and too few roads. I work with people that take an hour to drive 10 miles to work, yet cycling still isn't seen as a viable option because they see the treatment cyclists get.

If I wasn't already a cyclist when I moved here there's no way I'd have started cycling!

So I agree, that strategy is fluff.

amaferanga wrote:I have to get in the car and drive 20 miles north (past the river Ribble) to find nice routes for weekend rides. I never thought I'd ever live anywhere where I'd feel the need to do that.

Your missing out on some great riding then - providing you don't mind a few hills. Even more choice if you don't mind some off-road links (that is perfectly OK on 28mm tyres). I don't get as far as I used to but there are some nice routes to get to the Ribble Valley from here.

Maybe I'm just thick-skinned but I've never found Manchester to be much of a problem, & more quiet routes now than when I came up here as a student in the late 70s - even soloing the Tandem from Oxford Road Station out to Swinton in the rush hour last week (Tuesday when it was really hot).
Where are you (or rather Mrs Amaferanga) trying to get from to Salford Quays? There are several decent ways to get there - some directions better than others).

Rick.

Nah I've tried cycling around here and there are stretches of road that are okay, but there's always a busy A or B road. There may well be okay-ish routes to the Ribble valley, but then you've got to go through a city to get over the river! Not my idea of fun midway through a bike ride. I just can't be bothered cycling around here when I know I can drive up to somewhere like Longridge and have a choice of so many really pleasant routes where I could cycle hundreds of miles without touching a main road or even a busy minor road.

Maybe the problem is I've lived in places that are so, so much better than here.

Westhoughton to Salford Quays is her commute, but there's no pleasant on road route. As always here, there's okay bits linked by dangerous and/or unpleasant bits. I used to cycle to Salford Royal so I've tried to find a 'nice' way but it simply doesn't exist. Even getting in and out of Westhoughton is a miserable experience most days.

How about a strategy for the now, not in 24 years time? This is a strategy they can say what they like as they'll never have to implement it.

I must admit Westhoughton is a bit out on a limb in some ways, but I'm over that way reasonably frequently. I'd have to think of the best way to get there without adding too much mileage (it depends a bit which part of Westhowfen you're in), I've not yet tried it myself yet since they've finished, but you could pick up the path alongside the new guided busway from Leigh that then takes you straight onto the newly refurbished Roe Green Loop Line that takes you all the way to Monton. To get to Salford Quays there's a few hundred yards of road to pick up the Bridgewater Canal which, aprt from a 1/4 mile going over the ship canal (where there's no towpath at all) there's a pleasant green strip, with a decent path all the way through Trafford Park. Turn left at the canal junction (Manchester branch) & you can feed onto off road (pavement) cycle lanes for the last mile up to by the Coronation Street/IWM North.

Alternatively (& likely a shorter route) I've never, personally, found the A6 that bad, & not generally that busy as far as around Little Hulton where you have the option of the other arm of the loop line to Monton. You can avoid the Chequerbent (A58) roundabout these days with the pavement cycle lane if you don't want to mix it with the traffic. In rush hour (not that I have to do it very frequently these days) I find the biggest dilemma is generally which side to pass the near-stationary line of motor traffic!

From Horwich I can get all the way to Whalley almost all on nice quiet lanes with probably no more than a mile of busy(ish) road. You can even avoid a lot of the big hills if you want. Alternatively, if you are willing to ride up the A6 to Blackrod or Adlington there's a maze of little lanes that can take you, again with very little busy stuff (a couple of miles around Standish depending on which way you go) that get you down onto the flatlands over towards Rufford (& even most of the way to Southport if you can cope with a little unmade road that is perfectly do-able on skinny tyres). Some of the roads round there are so busy both ways there's grass growing through in the middle in places.

I can show you round sometime if you want to arrange something.

Rick.

PhilWhitehurst wrote:How about a strategy for the now, not in 24 years time? This is a strategy they can say what they like as they'll never have to implement it.

There's nothing to stop a 20+ years strategy form starting to happen now - in fact your unlikely to magic one out of the air. In fact the absence of a strategy is probably a large part of the reason for some of the disjointed, useless, (*insert expletive of choice here*) that we so often complain about. Copenhagen have a strategy gong to 2025 (form 2011) at the moment. Here's a quote to a blog from someone who's recently been studying it.

I’ve spent the last couple of hours examining the Copenhagen Bicycle Strategy 2011-2025 as part of my research for the new book. It’s enough to make your average British cyclist weep. Well worth a read but have tissues to hand…(link)

If you have an interest in cycling in the Manchester City Region (as it now seems to be referred to) then fill in the consultation. At worst it will waste a few minutes of your time, at best some good for cycling in the area may come of it.

Rick.

RickH wrote:I must admit Westhoughton is a bit out on a limb in some ways, but I'm over that way reasonably frequently. I'd have to think of the best way to get there without adding too much mileage (it depends a bit which part of Westhowfen you're in), I've not yet tried it myself yet since they've finished, but you could pick up the path alongside the new guided busway from Leigh that then takes you straight onto the newly refurbished Roe Green Loop Line that takes you all the way to Monton. To get to Salford Quays there's a few hundred yards of road to pick up the Bridgewater Canal which, aprt from a 1/4 mile going over the ship canal (where there's no towpath at all) there's a pleasant green strip, with a decent path all the way through Trafford Park. Turn left at the canal junction (Manchester branch) & you can feed onto off road (pavement) cycle lanes for the last mile up to by the Coronation Street/IWM North.

Alternatively (& likely a shorter route) I've never, personally, found the A6 that bad, & not generally that busy as far as around Little Hulton where you have the option of the other arm of the loop line to Monton. You can avoid the Chequerbent (A58) roundabout these days with the pavement cycle lane if you don't want to mix it with the traffic. In rush hour (not that I have to do it very frequently these days) I find the biggest dilemma is generally which side to pass the near-stationary line of motor traffic!

From Horwich I can get all the way to Whalley almost all on nice quiet lanes with probably no more than a mile of busy(ish) road. You can even avoid a lot of the big hills if you want. Alternatively, if you are willing to ride up the A6 to Blackrod or Adlington there's a maze of little lanes that can take you, again with very little busy stuff (a couple of miles around Standish depending on which way you go) that get you down onto the flatlands over towards Rufford (& even most of the way to Southport if you can cope with a little unmade road that is perfectly do-able on skinny tyres). Some of the roads round there are so busy both ways there's grass growing through in the middle in places.

I can show you round sometime if you want to arrange something.

Rick.

A very kind offer, but I've lived here long enough to have tried most roads in every direction and there's more unpleasant than pleasant. I cycle to Southport for work sometimes - its mostly miserable until I get beyond the M6 (that's 40mins of unpleasantness each way). The flatlands towards Southport are nice though. Even cycling to Wigan is miserable with the exception of the path through Haigh Hall. I'm not interested in using muddy, rough paths.

Getting from here down to Atherton/Leigh means taking an unpleasant road. The Greater Manchester cycling map used to recommend Platt Lane as a 'quiet' route. That's one of the most dangerous rat runs I've ever seen!

Chequerbent roundabout doesn't bother me at all (much safer to stay on the road than try to negotiate crossing each exit on the daft path round it). Ridiculously close passes on the A6 between Chequerbent and Four Lane Ends on a road that's about 12m wide does though.

I used to love cycling when I lived in Sheffield. I'd often get up at 5am and be on my bike by 6am for a pleasant 2 hour ride in the Peaks before work. I rarely did a direct commute, in the summer I'd often ride a couple of hundred miles from Mon-Fri just to and from work (including proper training to race at a reasonable level). Cycling really was my life. Of course there were crap roads and muppet motorists, same as everywhere, but without taking a ridiculously convoluted route you could get around the city on pleasant roads and once in the Peaks the cycling is 99% great.

Not once have I even been tempted to extend my commute since I moved to work around Manchester - I just want to get home as quickly as possible to get away from the unpleasantness. Sad but true. It truly is a crap place for cycling and some daft pie-in-the-sky strategy with pennies of funding isn't going to change anything.

amaferanga wrote:It truly is a crap place for cycling

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I don't know if it is just my perception &/or tolerance of traffic, whether I ride differently & don't get the close passes that others seem to report on a daily basis, my choice of routes or, most likely, some combination of them all.

Rick.

amaferanga wrote: It truly is a crap place for cycling and some daft pie-in-the-sky strategy with pennies of funding isn't going to change anything.

I'm sure many people think that about places around them at times - I know I do and I have Dartmoor on my doorstep! I also happen to know where you are talking about having grown up that way.

No daft pie-in-the-sky strategies won't change anything but unless people like you and me get off our backsides and shout about what needs to be done and actually get involved with things like this, then these strategies will always be daft pie-in-the sky. And then we'll all moan that nothing happened and cyclists weren't thought about. Typical apathy of the modern Brit I suppose.