Cycling UK Forum

jocks wrote:Unfortunately bollards are expensive and are a hindrance on narrow pavements.
[...]

To my mind the problem is one of social grace rather than legal or political. This is resolved by shifting public opinion and this is achieved by education.

The community signals its displeasure at anti-social behaviour by means of the enactment and enforcement of laws.
If the community (as represented by elected politicians) is not prepared to pay for enforcement of a law it shows that it doesn't really consider that the law is worth enforcing.

George Riches wrote:

jocks wrote:Unfortunately bollards are expensive and are a hindrance on narrow pavements.
[...]

To my mind the problem is one of social grace rather than legal or political. This is resolved by shifting public opinion and this is achieved by education.

The community signals its displeasure at anti-social behaviour by means of the enactment and enforcement of laws.
If the community (as represented by elected politicians) is not prepared to pay for enforcement of a law it shows that it doesn't really consider that the law is worth enforcing.

Here here! How right you are.
It always seems to me that the tail is firmly wagging the dog in this "society" of ours.

orbiter wrote:
The London Borough of Kingston doesn't seem to have that problem. Their leaflet on it (www.kingston.gov.uk/pavement_parking.pdf) warns of a £60 FPN issued by their parking contractors.

Pete

Correct. Greater London opted to manage the Criminal offence of Pavement Parking as a civil offence and can therefore use traffic wardens to police illegally parked cars.

"Parking at dropped kerbs is prohibited in the Greater London area under the provision of Section 14 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003. From 2008 under the Traffic Management Act 2004 these powers will be extended to all local authorities in England which have civil parking enforcement powers. As yet the Borough has not formulated a formal enforcement policy in respect of these new powers and at present the advice provided above should be adopted in these circumstances."

Link to pdf

Makes for pretty dismal reading on how the government has approached this. Yes it is illegal but not expressly covered under a road traffic act. It would appear that the copy I read was a proposed alteration to the Act rather than the actual published act. We have much work to do!

Letter to my MP? I don't think this is a devolved issue in Scotland, but perhaps nudging my MSP might help too. Your thoughts?

Jocks

A useful link.

It does hint at the difficulties of enforcing the current legislation, which are the reason for the proposals to alter the law to make it easier.

Unfortunately, transferring enforcement of parking from the police to local authorities has not been an unmitigated success. The original idea was that as it was local authorities who designed and implemented these schemes, they were the best people to enforce them. Unfortunately, in some local authority areas it has become a question of using the cheapest means possible (e.g poorly paid contractors) to extract the maximum £££ in tickets, losing sight of the target of ensuring compliance with the law.

(Don't the Si see that long link )

It would appear that a change of the law combined with a chunk of public information could help. I did read on a website somewhere that pedestrians are considered a dying breed!

I wonder if some headway could be made using the Disability Discrimination Act as a cudgel. Basically it is illegal to deny someone access to a public service simply on the basis of their disability, if the highway could be considered a public service then that might help. However, I would much rather this was neatly contained under a legal structure aimed directly at road users.

Is there someone in the CTC who can cut through pseudo-legalese and come up wth a concise approach to this?

(These discussions are worth the cost of membership alone!)

jocks

I have just walked my 88 year old mother home from the dentist. She was holding my arm for support. The footway was obstructed by a large lorry whose driver was using a nearby cash machine. My mother had to make her own way down the side of the lorry to the accompaniment of the derision of the two neanderthals who had been left in the cab. So I know what you mean

It seems pretty obvious to me that the reason that nothing has been done about this is a lack of political will. A motor vehicle can be very convenient but when you come to park it is an encumbrance. The present mushy compromise suits politicians.

Using the criminal system to deal with this has proved costly (particularly as it is manpower intensive) and has failed. The only possible move is to civil charges (local authority warden tickets) which only works if the local authority is determined to achieve a result. There are objections to decriminalising offences, one being that it allows rich people who can stand the cost of the tickets to do as they please. That's why clamping is often seen as a back-up. I don't think most peole like a 100% zero tolerance policy, whatever they say. They like to see discretion being used, but discretion is expensive (and in things like parking tickets can lead to corruption. "That's a 30 quid ticket guv., or a tenner for cash ) It also means that if you get a ticket you are guilty until proven innocent.

The only thing that would lead to change would be public pressure. We are nearly all pedestrains most of the time but driving and motor transport are powerful lobbies. I should not hold you breath for a quick result.

(I am not sure what you mean by pseudo-legalese. I try to make my own posts readable but accurate about the law. I'd be happy to re-phrase or explain anything I have posted which does not add to the general understanding.)

If I encounter a car on the pavement I will walk over it leaving some nice dents in the roof and bonnet. I live out in the sticks and all this trench warfare between motorists, cyclists and pedestrians etc is very rare and I sympathise with you having to put up with this bad attitude on an almost daily basis.

A key down the paintwork usually prevents a recurrence!

thirdcrank wrote:jocks

(I am not sure what you mean by pseudo-legalese. I try to make my own posts readable but accurate about the law. I'd be happy to re-phrase or explain anything I have posted which does not add to the general understanding.)

I was referring to my own words not other's

PW wrote:A key down the paintwork usually prevents a recurrence!

No it doesn't, the vehicle owner does not know who caused the damage or their reasons for causing the damage. By inciting vandalism you place yourself no higher than the irresponsible vehicle owner.

jocks wrote:

orbiter wrote:
The London Borough of Kingston doesn't seem to have that problem. Their leaflet on it (www.kingston.gov.uk/pavement_parking.pdf) warns of a £60 FPN issued by their parking contractors.

Pete

Correct. Greater London opted to manage the Criminal offence of Pavement Parking as a civil offence and can therefore use traffic wardens to police illegally parked cars.

Thanks jocks, for that and the other reference from Swindon, which makes the legal postion clearer
I find some hope in the comment

Some local authorities, for example Worcester, Exeter and Hereford took their own Private Act powers to ban pavement parking within their areas.

This is explained (somewhat) by http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/RegAndLeg/parkingLegi.asp
where it seems that any LA can ask to take local control of parking offences by FPNs, instead of the complication of a criminal offence. I wonder why more haven't.

Personally I've always been tempted to paint a line along the roof of a car on the pavement, following the line of the kerb.

I did investigate the purchase of those really sticky stickers for the driver's window with something like "Your Pavement Parking is Causing an Obstruction" but I figured, why should I pay for my local authorities inability to manage the traffic?

I believe it is only highway authorities which may take control of parking enforcement.

Councillors do tend to get very edgy nay paranoid about residential parking. Typical turnout in local govt., elections is very low so a very small number of voters who decide to turn out, especially if they persuade a few friends and relatives to do the same can swing a result. Ever car owner assumes they have an unalienable right to park outside their house and any scheme which affects that is liable to provoke disproprtionate protests.

Handy off-road parking beside 'no-stopping' section of road. Interactions over time appear to have enabled the residents to advise their visitors to leave at least some space........