Good illustration re passing clearances.

[Mick F]

Found this the other day.

[MikeF]

The measurement is misleading. I would like the clearance to be shown as that between car and cyclist and not taken from the middle of the cyclist's head to say middle of passenger seat.

[DaveP]

Nice graphics - I like! but you / we are living in a world where Mr Average doesn't have the technical skill to get himself past a 26 tonne truck festooned with "steering rear axle" stickers without sharing the same lane - on a motorway.
If they can't manage to afford a sensible clearance to a vehicle that can kill them without noticing the bump, with the assistance of a centre reservation, they ain't going to be too bothered about a cyclist!

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I must be thick as I don't get it

Oh.......................the last one is the cyclist on the wrong side of road ................. .Bang

[BakfietsUK]

Without an aerial view it's impossible to make an objective assessment on the attitudes. I like the idea though and I think it could be enhanced by an idea of the line the car takes whilst passing the rider.

A car coming up close and swinging widely is not necessarily the most comforting way that I experience some one passing me. Whereas a car that moves out early gives 2 metres and comes in later is the best possible outcome for me.

Maybe I am just a pedant asking for perfection where none is possible, still an idealistic attitude can be a jolly good start.

[Elizabethsdad]

Nice graphics - I like! but you / we are living in a world where Mr Average doesn't have the technical skill to get himself past a 26 tonne truck festooned with "steering rear axle" stickers without sharing the same lane - on a motorway.
If they can't manage to afford a sensible clearance to a vehicle that can kill them without noticing the bump, with the assistance of a centre reservation, they ain't going to be too bothered about a cyclist!

That sounds like you are speaking from very personal experience there

[Phil Fouracre]

Interesting! Yup I agree, needs to be from the cyclists elbow to the car door to make it slightly easier for the idiots, also from above. Then again, the illustration is from where they drive on the wrong side of the road anyway:)

Also agree with the way they pull out being even more important, yes, I've had the ones who roar up behind you, then pull out, just missing you, and, are still on the wrong side of 100 yds down the road. Then the opposite, way out in the road, then just miss your front wheel cutting in. Don't think there will ever be an answer to idiots

[DaveP]

When I was initially learning to drive my instructor was at pains to point out just how much more road space is needed if you drive right up to an obstruction and then have to pull out round it compared with moving out early and positioning yourself to pass parallel to the kerb.
When that obstruction is a cyclist this can make the difference between a close pass resulting from squeezing between bike and oncoming traffic and driving smoothly though with decent clearances and no one getting a nasty surprise.
This is simple geometry, not some perverse requirement laid down in an out dated version of the highway code!
I have never understood why it seems to be one of the first things to be forgotten when the L plates come off, but you can see the results every time you go out, drivers being so impatient that they allow themselves to roll into positions from which further progress is obviously going to be awkward

[james01]

When I was initially learning to drive my instructor was at pains to point out just how much more road space is needed if you drive right up to an obstruction and then have to pull out round it compared with moving out early and positioning yourself to pass parallel to the kerb.
When that obstruction is a cyclist this can make the difference between a close pass resulting from squeezing between bike and oncoming traffic and driving smoothly though with decent clearances and no one getting a nasty surprise.
This is simple geometry, not some perverse requirement laid down in an out dated version of the highway code!
I have never understood why it seems to be one of the first things to be forgotten when the L plates come off, but you can see the results every time you go out, drivers being so impatient that they allow themselves to roll into positions from which further progress is obviously going to be awkward

Agreed. It seems fashionable especially among younger drivers to drive up close to the cyclist before abruptly, alarmingly, swinging out to pass at the last minute.
And I often find when driving and wishing to drop off a passenger at the kerbside, despite giving ample indication of my intentions, I 'm followed mindlessly by a tailgater who then becomes (amusingly) trapped behind my parked vehicle as the rest of the traffic flows around him

[rmurphy195]

I love it! My friends belong in box no. 3, I'm usually in box no. 4 (honest!).

And a good point by DaveP - in everything you do, aim for NO SURPRISES (unless its buying a present of course!).

In my yoof learning to drive included giving enough room around a cyclist for him/her to fall off the bike without going under your wheels. And I suspect by doing so you reduce the risk of the cyclist being surprised into falling off.

But then I'm biased anyway - I cycled, then motorbiked soon after I was old enough, then went onto cars 'cos you don't get wet (well, not very anyway 'cos I chose to start driving in a convertible!). I feel everyone should take this route, and learn to be vulnerable.

[hamster]

[quote="james01"It seems fashionable especially among younger drivers to drive up close to the cyclist before abruptly, alarmingly, swinging out to pass at the last minute.[/quote]

Not my experience; round here the ones who give me most space are vans and younger drivers. Worst are the over-40s, typically Mr age 55 in 15 year old Jag or Rover..

[The utility cyclist]

There's only one correct and safe overtaking depiction here and it's the last one.
1metre is simply not enough even as a bare minimum unless vehicles are doing 20mph or less.
Advocating poor passing laws is dangerous and sets a horrible precedence that does not help and makes it ok to pass at the minimum distances when in fact that is nowhere near sufficient in many many instances especially when vans/light goods/heavy goods pass you.
If anyone thinks being passed at 1.5m by a large vehicle at 40/50/60mph is okay and doesn't make you either fearful or angry must be oblivious to the dangers that presents.

[hamster]

The diagram also had people on the other side of the road, so clearly isn't from the UK...

[Vorpal]

Although the picture part of that is okay, it doesn't make any sense to me to ascribe motives to bad driving. While it may be likely, or even true that a close pass is an indication of a lack of respect, the vast majority of close passes are merely thoughtless. People don't realise how scary it is for a cyclist to be so close to a car, or they figure if they don't hit anything, they're good drivers, and simply never think about it from the cyclist's perspective.

[BakfietsUK]

I am trying to work out whether it is more realistic to surmise that close passers are not maleficent or whether some drivers do it on purpose.

Taking either one and seeming to discount the other as a possibility is for me an unhelpful assessment of my perception of reality. Most drivers would be mortified to know how much angst their behaviour may cause to other people, so I can see it is helpful to be positive.

Unfortunately there are some drivers that seem helpless, but to chastise those who they see as relatively defenceless. Bullies exist everywhere and usually thrive on manipulating others through fear and or shame.

What I have been trying to do throughout my membership here is to make a balanced assessment of a multi dimensional experience. So not to acknowledge that there are some very nasty people about who also happen to drive, is to all intents and purposes a state of denial.

I say this because it can be very helpful to recognise someone whose behaviour is a potential risk to my own safety. I would much rather be aware of the possibility of this risk than to pretend everything is ok. To me it is the difference between hyper vigilance and a reasonable judgement of someone's character based on the behaviour I observe. In other words I know when to "forgive" and I know when to "walk" away.