** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Aug 2019, 10:16am

Hi,
Well No :)
I'm just thinking that we're back to Polls again.
how much confidence are we putting in what polls and the media say?
In my experience people are very cagey about how much they earn and who they actually vote for.
From my early days in school and late experiences in the work groups et cetera, people feel uncomfortable about being in the minority or being the odd one out.
That's about all really.
There's not a lot of activity going on on this post I've noticed Probably because it's still out of our hands and we are relying on the MPs to come to their senses and make sure hopefully they're working for us not themselves?
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Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 16 Aug 2019, 11:48am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:.....
There's not a lot of activity going on on this post I've noticed Probably because it's still out of our hands and we are relying on the MPs to come to their senses and make sure hopefully they're working for us not themselves?

But interesting things to watch, particularly the "stupidity of Corbyn" (yet again). His plan to make himself PM is a complete non-starter. Can anybody really see any Conservative MPs supporting making Corbyn PM? Swinson is completely right - it's a non-starter but might work with somebody less contentions who would be acceptable to a broader range of MPs (and her suggestions seem sensible).

Corbyn and his fan club go on about "it's not about personalities and people need to think of the good of the country rather than personalities" but they then require that everybody support Corbyn for PM. If it really is not about personalities then they should be happy to consider other more moderate people to take on the caretaker PM role.

But also, yet again Corbyn is pushing a General Election ('cos he wants to be PM for his own agenda) where I believe a general Election will not resolve the Leave/Remain crisis. If we have a General Election Conservatives will start campaigning on law & order and NHS (they've already started) and Labour will be campaigning on workers rights, living wage, etc.. So people will be voting for a massive range of reasons (some being purely because the don't want Piffle or Corbyn as PM) rather than their desires on EU Leave or Remain. We need a referendum of the EU Leave or Remain for the options that are now available (not some hypothetical "we'll renegotiate a far better deal, ignoring what the EU leadership keep saying). But Corbyn still cannot propose a referendum of EU to sort out the current crisis, then to go with a General Election.

Ian

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 16 Aug 2019, 2:55pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:and we are relying on the MPs to come to their senses and make sure hopefully they're working for us not themselves?
That would, of course, include Bozo and his cronies .... sorry, I mean "his cabinet"?! Because they most unarguably are working solely for each one's No.1.

Indeed the whole gamut of hardline, no-deal'er Brex**iteer MPs, are simply clinging to a dogma which exists only in their minds, claiming authority from a pseudo "will of the people" which no longer exists...

The rest of us just want reason to prevail...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Aug 2019, 3:02pm

Psamathe wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:.....
There's not a lot of activity going on on this post I've noticed Probably because it's still out of our hands and we are relying on the MPs to come to their senses and make sure hopefully they're working for us not themselves?

But interesting things to watch, particularly the "stupidity of Corbyn" (yet again). His plan to make himself PM is a complete non-starter. Can anybody really see any Conservative MPs supporting making Corbyn PM? Swinson is completely right - it's a non-starter but might work with somebody less contentions who would be acceptable to a broader range of MPs (and her suggestions seem sensible).

Corbyn and his fan club go on about "it's not about personalities and people need to think of the good of the country rather than personalities" but they then require that everybody support Corbyn for PM. If it really is not about personalities then they should be happy to consider other more moderate people to take on the caretaker PM role.

But also, yet again Corbyn is pushing a General Election ('cos he wants to be PM for his own agenda) where I believe a general Election will not resolve the Leave/Remain crisis. If we have a General Election Conservatives will start campaigning on law & order and NHS (they've already started) and Labour will be campaigning on workers rights, living wage, etc.. So people will be voting for a massive range of reasons (some being purely because the don't want Piffle or Corbyn as PM) rather than their desires on EU Leave or Remain. We need a referendum of the EU Leave or Remain for the options that are now available (not some hypothetical "we'll renegotiate a far better deal, ignoring what the EU leadership keep saying). But Corbyn still cannot propose a referendum of EU to sort out the current crisis, then to go with a General Election.

Ian


It's blindingly obvious that no Tory MP will vote to make Corbyn PM.

So the only logical reason for Corbyn to insist he is the only interim pm Labour will support to stop no deal is that he doesn't want an interim pm to stop no deal.

Corbyn's actions have been consistent only with one thing: he's in favour of a Tory Brexit, believing it will facilitate a Labour government later.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Aug 2019, 4:24pm

Hi,
Psamathe wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:.....
There's not a lot of activity going on on this post I've noticed Probably because it's still out of our hands and we are relying on the MPs to come to their senses and make sure hopefully they're working for us not themselves?

But interesting things to watch, particularly the "stupidity of Corbyn" (yet again). His plan to make himself PM is a complete non-starter. Can anybody really see any Conservative MPs supporting making Corbyn PM? Swinson is completely right - it's a non-starter but might work with somebody less contentions who would be acceptable to a broader range of MPs (and her suggestions seem sensible).

Corbyn and his fan club go on about "it's not about personalities and people need to think of the good of the country rather than personalities" but they then require that everybody support Corbyn for PM. If it really is not about personalities then they should be happy to consider other more moderate people to take on the caretaker PM role.

But also, yet again Corbyn is pushing a General Election ('cos he wants to be PM for his own agenda) where I believe a general Election will not resolve the Leave/Remain crisis. If we have a General Election Conservatives will start campaigning on law & order and NHS (they've already started) and Labour will be campaigning on workers rights, living wage, etc.. So people will be voting for a massive range of reasons (some being purely because the don't want Piffle or Corbyn as PM) rather than their desires on EU Leave or Remain. We need a referendum of the EU Leave or Remain for the options that are now available (not some hypothetical "we'll renegotiate a far better deal, ignoring what the EU leadership keep saying). But Corbyn still cannot propose a referendum of EU to sort out the current crisis, then to go with a General Election.

Ian

Yep, that about it, well put that man :)
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Aug 2019, 4:26pm

Hi,
On Corbie, in one breath he says give the scots another independence vote...................then he says he thinks its not a good idea to do so :roll:

Any leader / party needs clarity.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 16 Aug 2019, 4:37pm

661-Pete wrote:That would, of course, include Bozo and his cronies .... sorry, I mean "his cabinet"?! Because they most unarguably are working solely for each one's No.1.

Indeed the whole gamut of hardline, no-deal'er Brex**iteer MPs, are simply clinging to a dogma which exists only in their minds, claiming authority from a pseudo "will of the people" which no longer exists...

The rest of us just want reason to prevail...

You still believe we're going to leave? I don't.

Boris and co have a problem, they're not that stupid that they can't see the damage crashing out will do. (Although I appreciate there are some people who will accept any amount of damage to leave - including a few of his cabinet).
But otoh if they don't make a serious attempt they're unlikely to get elected in the next election either.

So what to do?

They could crash out and then blame the resultant chaos on the EU. It has the positive of shifting blame away from BoJo, giving him some authority to "rule" but may well damage his chances of winning an election if it does indeed turn out to be a feckastrophe.

Better would be to posture madly with the expectation he'll be stopped. This is ideal because if he tries and fails then its a win win for him, no crash and lots of folk to blame: remainers, politicians, EU intransigence...

His worse option is actually talking to the EU - unless by some miracle they drop their trousers but that also seems unlikely.

Overall, I expect that one way or another that Oct 31st will come and go.
(I do now think the chances of a GE are now higher than they were when I said it won't happen, although I still think it unlikely).

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Aug 2019, 7:00pm

Hi,
kwackers wrote:Overall, I expect that one way or another that Oct 31st will come and go.
(I do now think the chances of a GE are now higher than they were when I said it won't happen, although I still think it unlikely).

I think we will leave on 31st.
GE more likely.....but still unlikely, so its still unlikely.
Just the opinions of an old fart, (thats me) :)
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 16 Aug 2019, 7:26pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
kwackers wrote:Overall, I expect that one way or another that Oct 31st will come and go.
(I do now think the chances of a GE are now higher than they were when I said it won't happen, although I still think it unlikely).

I think we will leave on 31st.
GE more likely.....but still unlikely, so its still unlikely.
Just the opinions of an old fart, (thats me) :)



well if we leave there will be CV and a GE and Labour will get in have a referendum, the remainers win and join the EU again, maybe the EU will be generous enough to "ignore" Boris' Folly as if it never happened? Have Boris declared a tyrant/dictator, as he went against Parliament, and his actions null and void, as he went against the will of the people, which he refused to query by having a 2nd referendum? He will become a foot note to history - The 100 ( or whatever) day parliament where a grubby self seeking politician tried to use the norms of democracy for his own agrandisement

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 16 Aug 2019, 7:46pm

kwackers wrote:
661-Pete wrote:That would, of course, include Bozo and his cronies .... sorry, I mean "his cabinet"?! Because they most unarguably are working solely for each one's No.1.

Indeed the whole gamut of hardline, no-deal'er Brex**iteer MPs, are simply clinging to a dogma which exists only in their minds, claiming authority from a pseudo "will of the people" which no longer exists...

The rest of us just want reason to prevail...

You still believe we're going to leave? I don't.
Nope. I can't imagine how you came to construe that out of my post - nor indeed anything else I've posted. No. My best observation is, I don't know. I don't have a time machine, nor am I a soothsayer as per Julius Caesar: "Beware the 31st of Oct!"

I don't really like any of the possible outcomes. No-Deal-Leave is obviously a disaster; Leave-with-Deal has a lot of disadvantages, among them losing representation in the EU Parliament. GE would probably lead to a hung Parliament and some sort of coalition. And it could easily be the 'wrong' coalition (Ugh!). Second referendum? Obviously the least-worst option. We've all come to have an aversion to referendums, but if it's the only way out of the fire...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 16 Aug 2019, 10:13pm

661-Pete wrote:Nope. I can't imagine how you came to construe that out of my post - nor indeed anything else I've posted. No. My best observation is, I don't know. I don't have a time machine, nor am I a soothsayer as per Julius Caesar: "Beware the 31st of Oct!"

Probably worded it badly, where I was really coming from was what I think BoJo is up to and I don't believe it's aimed at leaving without a deal.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby stu1102 » 17 Aug 2019, 8:27am

2016: TURKEY ARE JOINING THE EU!!!

Scunthorpe votes 68.68% for leave

2019: British Steel in Scunthorpe goes into administration because of Brexit

Turkey buys British Steel Scunthorpe and saves 4,500 jobs

…………………………..


courtesy of RussellEngland\twitter

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby georgew » 17 Aug 2019, 11:45am

stu1102 wrote:2016: TURKEY ARE JOINING THE EU!!!

Scunthorpe votes 68.68% for leave

2019: British Steel in Scunthorpe goes into administration because of Brexit

Turkey buys British Steel Scunthorpe and saves 4,500 jobs

…………………………..


courtesy of RussellEngland\twitter



The above perfectly illustrates the madhouse which is now England. Note that I say England.....as luckily there are parts this is yet to reach.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 17 Aug 2019, 11:48am

georgew wrote:
stu1102 wrote:2016: TURKEY ARE JOINING THE EU!!!

Scunthorpe votes 68.68% for leave

2019: British Steel in Scunthorpe goes into administration because of Brexit

Turkey buys British Steel Scunthorpe and saves 4,500 jobs

…………………………..


courtesy of RussellEngland\twitter



The above perfectly illustrates the madhouse which is now England. Note that I say England.....as luckily there are parts this is yet to reach.

Ain't that the truth? :roll: it beggars belief
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 17 Aug 2019, 4:36pm

From BBC news June this year?

Why was British Steel liquidated?
British Steel has been facing a tough global steel market, especially in competition to China, but it attributed its current woes to Brexit and tension between the US and China.


Maybe the prospect of leaving the EU was the final nail for British Steel, but it's been going downhill for a while?


What happened to Ravenscraig?
The closure of Ravenscraig in 1992 signaled the end of large-scale steel making in Scotland, and was the cause of a loss of 770 jobs, with another 10,000 job losses directly and indirectly linked to the closure.



Sorry for being away from this thread for a while, but I'm leaving it again.
Over and out.
Mick F. Cornwall