** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[al_yrpal]

The Euro is not the EU and the EU is not the Euro.

Personally I dont think of Europe as the EU, my comment about the land grabs is nothing to do with the EU, it was about bad things that happened in the past. The EU will eventually disintegrate. Empires always do, especially undemocratic ones. When Juncker retires his place will be taken by an even more rabid integrationalist.

Al

[reohn2]

I don't understand the land grab argument. What has it got to do with the EU or our membership of the EU.
Ukraine is not a member, is politically independent yet divided in it's own right.Not likely to become an EU member anytime soon.

Crimea was a straightforward strategic land grab and political coup by Putin against his old vassal states.
No affiliation with the EU.
Why are these relevant to our position within or without the EU?

Because Al believes that Germany and,now France it seems are trying to rule the world
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We already trade (import?) enormous quantities of goods with the Eastern Asia without any issues?

And under the EU umbrella

My view is that our food supply should come predominantly from a stable Europe

I agree.

I can see no sense in trucking food half way round the world when we have arguably the world's finest agricultural resource literally on our doorstep. Believe me when I say many nations look with envy and lust at that resource

.
I think you're right
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In spite of the Eurozone's problems in "club med", the Euro has continued to hold its value- better than the pound, in fact.

It has it's problems of that there's no doubt but now the £ is sufferig and I beieve will go on suffering if the Uk leaves.

Some of "clubmed's" problems were caused by over stretched domestic borrowing. Greece for example was never the same after hosting the Olympics.

And people abiding by the law and paying their taxes,but what can you do when the system is corrupt from top to bottom?
The man at the bottom is hardly likely to abide by the law when he ses those at the top abusing it openly and getting away with it.
Does it remind you of anywhere

It's not perfect by I think "Reohn" is correct in saying those countries would never opt to leave. They see the benefits of membership all to clearly.

[661-Pete]

Because those who are calling for this to be taken into account have been trying to overturn the result of the referendum by any means they can and this is just another in a long stream of attempts to reverse the decision.

And what, pray, is wrong with "trying to overturn the result"? If someone is convicted of a crime in what they believe is a miscarriage of justice, you bet they'll go to the Appeal Court! Why shouldn't they? It's the only way a verdict can be overturned.

The motive is clear.

Yes I agree it is perfectly clear. Why shouldn't we have a motive? Our motive is to get us out of the s*** creek we are in and restore sanity....

I have considered the odds very much favour that this referendum will not be allowed to make any substantial difference, that it will be subverted.

I agree with you for once - that is possible. But if it's not tried, there's no chance of any favourable result. And a subverted referendum, which is proven to be subverted, can be challenged and run again. With proper criminal proceedings (this time) against the subverters.

Justine Greening (a Remainer) was talking today on R4 about a 3-way referendum choice (deal/no deal/remain) - with Alternative voting. That system could, I agree, stymie the Remain voters - especially if voters who choose Remain as the first choice and leave the other options blank, are deemed to have voted for one of the Leave options as their second preference. If that ever happens, I just hope there are some good lawyers on our side!

[meic]

I agree with you for once - that is possible

I thought that you voted remain.

[reohn2]

The Euro is not the EU and the EU is not the Euro.

Personally I dont think of Europe as the EU, my comment about the land grabs is nothing to do with the EU, it was about bad things that happened in the past. The EU will eventually disintegrate. Empires always do, especially undemocratic ones. When Juncker retires his place will be taken by an even more rabid integrationalist.

Al

And by mentioning it you believe the EU is all about land grab and domination?

[Oldjohnw]

Because those who are calling for this to be taken into account have been trying to overturn the result of the referendum by any means they can and this is just another in a long stream of attempts to reverse the decision.

Leading leavers had, of course, been trying to overturn the earlier referendum for 40 years. They never accepted the result.

[al_yrpal]

The Euro is not the EU and the EU is not the Euro.

Personally I dont think of Europe as the EU, my comment about the land grabs is nothing to do with the EU, it was about bad things that happened in the past. The EU will eventually disintegrate. Empires always do, especially undemocratic ones. When Juncker retires his place will be taken by an even more rabid integrationalist.

Al

And by mentioning it you believe the EU is all about land grab and domination?

No, the EU is clearly about integration. The land grabs are often about historical land disputes between individual nations or naked aggression to subjugate other countries.

Sorry, your clumsy attempts to put words in my mouth arent working.

Al

[meic]

especially if voters who choose Remain as the first choice and leave the other options blank, are deemed to have voted for one of the Leave options as their second preference.

I cant see what issue you are worried about here.
If a remain voter's second preference has to be considered are they not only doing so because remain have been "knocked out" and the only choice to be made is between the two leave options. If they have no preference between them, they leave it blank and have no effect on which leave option is chosen. If they have a preference they give it as their second choice. None of the three second preference options will have any influence over remain having been lost.
Unless you are implying that a remain vote with no specified second preference will be deemed to be voting for soft Brexit, which is something that I cant believe any electoral authorities would allow.

[Cyril Haearn]

Because those who are calling for this to be taken into account have been trying to overturn the result of the referendum by any means they can and this is just another in a long stream of attempts to reverse the decision.

Leading leavers had, of course, been trying to overturn the earlier referendum for 40 years. They never accepted the result.

Some leavers were not born in 1975, or were at school

Any leavers from 1975 still active? Nice or nasty tories?

[Cyril Haearn]

? !PLEASE leave the name of the quotee when quoting!

Diolch yn fawr iawn i bawb
Thank you very much to all

[meic]

Because those who are calling for this to be taken into account have been trying to overturn the result of the referendum by any means they can and this is just another in a long stream of attempts to reverse the decision.

Leading leavers had, of course, been trying to overturn the earlier referendum for 40 years. They never accepted the result.

Which is not true. They accepted the result, we went in and remained in. This referendum was a referendum to leave, not a re-run of a referendum that they didnt like the result of.

[meic]

? !PLEASE leave the name of the quotee when quoting!

Diolch yn fawr iawn i bawb
Thank you very much to all

NO.
You post your things your way and I will post mine my way.

[reohn2]

The Euro is not the EU and the EU is not the Euro.

Personally I dont think of Europe as the EU, my comment about the land grabs is nothing to do with the EU, it was about bad things that happened in the past. The EU will eventually disintegrate. Empires always do, especially undemocratic ones. When Juncker retires his place will be taken by an even more rabid integrationalist.

Al

And by mentioning it you believe the EU is all about land grab and domination?

No, the EU is clearly about integration. The land grabs are often about historical land disputes between individual nations or naked aggression to subjugate other countries.

Sorry, your clumsy attempts to put words in my mouth arent working.

Al

I don't need to put words in your mouth you did that some pages back by claiming that Germany want to rule the world,your words not mine !
But getting back to your negative claims about the EU,where's the evidence?

[al_yrpal]

For the evidence look no further than the negotiations. If we remain in the EU Britain will be further diminished and impoverished especially if we get a labour government. Disaster beckons.

Al

[meic]

For the evidence look no further than the negotiations. If we remain in the EU Britain will be further diminished and impoverished especially if we get a labour government. Disaster beckons.

Al

It was very short sighted of folk on both sides of the referendum to use it as a "proxy" for the Labour-Conservative battle.
At the moment it is tilted to the EU being more "socialist" than the UK but that could change very rapidly.