Cracks in the EU begin to appear?

[mercalia]

French politicians mull ripping up EU budget rules.....

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160911/french-politicians-mll-ripping-up-eu-budget-rules

[al_yrpal]

Whats new, the French always ignore rules they dont approve of!

There are apparently three main blocs within the EU - Club Med - Fiscal Moralists - New Nationalists, broadly South (fiscally challenged), North (who have the money) and East (Poor Nationalist) and then of course us. The cracks are already there.

Al

[blackbike]

More internal discord in the EU with the Luxemburg foreign minister calling for the expulsion of a member country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37347352

[SpannerGeek]

It's clear these threads are simply tit for tat exchanges in the 'We were right, you were wrong' camp. The truth is no one knows what Brexit will look like because it hasn't even started yet, and likely won't till everyone has forgotten what all the fuss was about.

That way they won't be disappointed to see it's just a cosmetic political makeover and nothing is really going to change or deter big business from its endless quest top exploit the poor and the stupid. The only real change I expect is an out and out assault on workers rights and conditions, something which the EU was eminently placed to protect. No one is going to 'win' as a result of Brexit, which day on day seems to be watered down to the point it hardly matters anyway.

[meic]

I always assumed that it would be the UK that just fudged Brexit and didnt move away from anything that was a substantial part of the EU.
These threads do open up another scenario that I hadnt considered, which is that the whole of Europe's politics move to a less federal nature, so the UK will actually get more autonomy because that is the way that the EU itself will have turned, preferring to bend rather than snap.

[blackbike]

More EU problems.

Authoritarian European Commission created Brexit and could destroy the union, eastern states warn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09 ... uld-destr/

[meic]

Cracks in the Union?
http://www.theweek.co.uk/scottish-indep ... dependence

[thirdcrank]

I can understand somebody wanting to quit the EU, but somebody wanting to quit the EU and then hoping that what's left will come to some sort of sticky end seems a bit spooky to me. I think it's called schadenfreude.

[bovlomov]

I can understand somebody wanting to quit the EU, but somebody wanting to quit the EU and then hoping that what's left will come to some sort of sticky end seems a bit spooky to me. I think it's called schadenfreude.

Being generous - perhaps they're thinking that a Europe of independent states would be better for all. That would be in the long run though. In the short term, a collapse of the EU can only bring misery to millions - including UK citizens.

Still - if it's all in a good cause...

[Ben@Forest]

Being generous - perhaps they're thinking that a Europe of independent states would be better for all. That would be in the long run though. In the short term, a collapse of the EU can only bring misery to millions - including UK citizens.

Still - if it's all in a good cause...

Like every other empire the EU will decline. The Roman Empire took over 100 years to decline into nothing and of course at the beginning or even mid-way through that 100 years Romans would not have seen that the end was fairly imminent.

Of course the Roman Republic/Empire was around for about 900 years before it started to decline, the EU has had a much shorter timespan to date, but in years to come historians might point to Brexit as the beginning of the decline. Or maybe they'll point to its era of fevered expansionism which meant taking on new entrants to too quickly and putting monetary union before political union, or at least a comprehensive fiscal policy.

[bovlomov]

Like every other empire the EU will decline. The Roman Empire took over 100 years to decline into nothing and of course at the beginning or even mid-way through that 100 years Romans would not have seen that the end was fairly imminent.

Of course the Roman Republic/Empire was around for about 900 years before it started to decline, the EU has had a much shorter timespan to date, but in years to come historians might point to Brexit as the beginning of the decline. Or maybe they'll point to its era of fevered expansionism which meant taking on new entrants to too quickly and putting monetary union before political union, or at least a comprehensive fiscal policy.

I'm not sure the EU ever became an empire - though some of its proponents would have liked it to have been. But TC was talking about the glee with with some people report problems within the EU. Even if EU disintegration has to come at some stage, the process will not be pretty and even EU haters should be cautious about celebrating.

[Tangled Metal]

Monetary union with their own rules on convergence ignored. Great idea! When even the economic powerhouse of Germany with its propensity for sticking to rules could not meet all the rules I think it's problematic. Add in weaker economies without half the rules of the union that it needs (such as support of failing economies, etc.).

I doubt I'll see the EU fall in the 40+ years actuaries predict for me though.

Not an empire so could migrate to inner circle of stronger economies closely tied and weaker ones in the outer circle plus hangers on like the UK.

[Ben@Forest]

I'm not sure the EU ever became an empire - though some of its proponents would have liked it to have been. But TC was talking about the glee with with some people report problems within the EU. Even if EU disintegration has to come at some stage, the process will not be pretty and even EU haters should be cautious about celebrating.

I think the EU has a lot of the precursors of empire. A sound trading concept with a political will not to allow a further Franco-German war but which soon expanded its remit into a federalist agenda, a wish to move into all realms of political and social policy, and finally expansionism which threatens other polity's spheres of influence - for instance should the EU ever have encouraged or entertained Ukraine being a member?

[bovlomov]

for instance should the EU ever have encouraged or entertained Ukraine being a member?

I don't know. As with Nato membership, it seems a bit like treading on Russian toes.

[blackbike]

"Sometimes I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organisation of empire. We have the dimension of empire,"

European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso, 2007.

https://euobserver.com/institutional/24458