What do you think of this video! Disgrace that woman

[horizon]

So my impression here is that the rider was riding too quickly for what appears to be a very narrow lane. It's also difficult to judge widths, clearances etc, so my impression is that neither oncoming driver could have left more space. I found it impossible to estimate the speed of the oncoming vehicles or whether their drivers had time to stop. The rider seemed to think that the first driver should have seen him round the corner before he was actually in view.

I've watched it again and it seems to me that the driver could and should have seen him - there is about 3 - 4 seconds of him in view while she passes the wider section of road. But assuming that that was a bit unfair, would she have stopped had he been closer? Well, I can't make out what she says but it seems that she said something along the lines of "I have a car..." So it might be that she wouldn't have and it was that that increased the cyclist's consternation.

[Psamathe]

I'm surprised the cyclist in the video made such a big issue over the amount of space he was given.

I get cars failing to stop in the same circumstances all the time and having the amount of space he was given is common - and I ignore it and ride on (and enjoy my ride).

OK, woman was wrong and not pleasant but the cyclists sort of "started it" by shouting and swearing at the driver. But of all the car cyclist issues I'm surprised he thought that one was worthy of posting online.

Ian

[gaz]

.

[horizon]

Are those cyclists also presuming right of way in a way they wouldn't do if driving a car?

I think it's very sad that many cyclists believe that their status on the road is so low that all they can do is put their head down and go. If they did as you do and both give way where appropriate and claim their space when right to do so, they would feel much more sure of their role and I think find their cycling much more enjoyable.

I often (always if appropriate) stop for cars, wave them through and generally control the situation. It's responsible, pleasing and most of the time (if not all the time actually) appreciated by drivers. My own response to the situation in the OP's video would have been a friendly wave to the lady who had to stop and pull over - it doesn't mean you don't thank her!

[gaz]

.

[thirdcrank]

FWIW, I thought her reference to a car was because she was suggesting that he didn't appreciate what driving on a narrow road entailed.

If there were subtitles I'd be interested to know what the rider shouted as he was still in front of the oncoming car. I also wonder if the interaction included some unseen gesturing or something before the bit we have seen, because the driver seemed to be ready to respond.

In any event, the rider did not seem to feel so endangered that he was obliged to stop or take any avoiding action. It's natural for fear to turn to anger: I've been there myself and I know it's not always easy to calm down. (Not only while cycling, may I say.) My impression here is one of self-righteousness.

To take a different approach to this, let's imagine that this had been part of a much longer ("Slow television"?) film like the journey on the Dalesman bus from Richmonf to Horton-in-Ribblesdale. Let's imagine the rider had just ridden through without any interaction with the driver. How many of us would have winced?

Finally, this has had me thinking about the difficulty of getting the police to act on reports of bad driving corroborated by video. (I do know that this one is from the internet.) If this footage is anything like typical, I can understand reluctance to sit through them. (I started this about five posts back.)

[Feek]

Now bearing in mind I'm a new cyclist so I have very little practical experience of this sort of thing.

I say "this sort of thing" but I'm struggling to actually see what the problem is here. OK, she clearly didn't wait at the passing place but she did appear to move over to the left a bit and leave as much room as she could, it looked like there was plenty of space for them to pass.

He aggravated the situation by shouting at her. I accept that she was rude in return but in her eyes, she hadn't really done anything wrong. I think the cyclist was over shouty and handled the entire situation badly. I was waiting for him to say that she's on camera and he'll be calling the police and I wasn't disappointed. At that point I lost interest.

[horizon]

I say "this sort of thing" but I'm struggling to actually see what the problem is here.

OK, she clearly didn't wait at the passing place

Which is what we're discussing (for better or worse).

[Feek]

Which is what we're discussing (for better or worse).

I'm looking at the video, I see her drive past the passing point and then moving slightly to the left to make more space for the cyclist to get through. In his eyes, she should have stopped. In her eyes, she made space for him to pass.

One of the two parties got grumpy and aggressive, the other overreacted. In this respect, I think they're both wrong. I certainly don't think she should be disgraced for her actions.

[horizon]

I certainly don't think she should be disgraced for her actions.

Which was the consensus. But if you look at eleithyia''s post you will see that there is still the nub of an issue. Personally I think that was worth discussing, but not in the context of his reaction.

[thirdcrank]

I'm still hoping that somebody with better hearing/ computer speakers than mine will post what was the single word shouted by the rider while he was still in front of the other car.

An earlier start to the vid would have enabled us to see things like whether the rider had just come round a bend and the frequency of passing places: had he, for example just passed a passing place himself where he might have waited? That's given that he thought the road was too narrow for a cyclist and motor vehicle to pass safely between passing places.

I hope we might all agree that this "disgraceful" woman was not driving in any sort of reckless manner, even allowing for the fact that it looks like a very narrow road. She wasn't driving in a way which made a crash inevitable, nor did she force the rider to dive into the hedge bottom. I'm not trying to say the driving was somehow textbook, or even OK so long as you only compare it with what drivers often get up to. Her sin was not to have behaved as the cameraman felt she should have done.

Let's suppose she had stopped where the rider obviously felt she should have, I wonder how much use he would have made of what looks like a poor surface to gain some extra passing clearance.

Ultimately, we are back to the Highway Code which advises road users of their responsibilities rather than their rights and there's nothing in there that suggests advising other road users of what "they should ov done."

I'm not suggesting that I've not displayed anger at the antics of others but I'm not so self righteous as to make a film of my own antics. If this woman has seen the vid, she may feel silly about how she responded, but I don't think she will blame herself for the initial incident and neither do I.

[horizon]

I'm

Let's suppose she had stopped where the rider obviously felt she should have

Do we think she should have? Well, yes as we all believe that cars should give way to cyclists where appropriate and many of us have been infuriated when they haven't. But I think we're confusing an issue of principle with what actually happened which, on the face of it, wasn't that bad - like I said above, at least she pulled over and maybe even stopped - that's luxury around here!

[bogmyrtle]

It's funny how a three year old clip was posted by a new member who spent five minutes on this site and has not been back. The same clip was posted an hour earlier on Cyclechat.
Someone is playing games.

[Psamathe]

I certainly don't think she should be disgraced for her actions.

Which was the consensus. But if you look at eleithyia''s post you will see that there is still the nub of an issue. Personally I think that was worth discussing, but not in the context of his reaction.

I agree. This is not an unusual situation and many instances are a lot worse and those worse ones are what we should be considering and thinking about how to make motorists appreciate that a bike needs more than 2" gap to pass through. And I have no idea. I have on a few occasions stopped in the middle of the road blocking the motorist and explained to him/her why I cannot ride right in the gutter or pull into nowhere. But every time I felt they would drive on a bit angry at being delayed and not recognising the problems I'd explained.

However, like with the recent Jeremy Vine video, I think that posting "not particularly bad" examples and pushing them into high profile actually hinders the process of getting motorists to appreciate the issues - they look at the video and see that the cyclist was (in part) in the wrong and think no more. there are normally far worse posted examples and it is these that should be pushed into high profile; ones where most motorists would at least cringe at whet the video shows other motorists doing (not having the "let-out" that the cyclist was (in part) to blame).

Ian

[Heltor Chasca]

It's funny how a three year old clip was posted by a new member who spent five minutes on this site and has not been back. The same clip was posted an hour earlier on Cyclechat.
Someone is playing games.

I fear you have the correct answer. No point in warmongering unless something was really untoward and in my opinion there wasn't. In Somerset I'm quite prepared to pull over, even on sharp descents or ascents. Today I did and the lady driver stopped to have a natter.

I'm very handsome though [emoji83]