Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 18297
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby Vorpal » 6 Oct 2016, 11:54am

mercalia wrote:I am surprised at the complacancy of some here quoting theoretical "facts" about ssds. The research in question not just idle speculation. if you want to hear the podcast where I heard this go over to Twittv and the security now podcast and wade thru the show until you get to the section.

or

https://twit.tv/shows/security-now/episodes/580?autostart=false

This issue will only affect those who keep their browser open all the time with lots of tabs

Even if you dont increasing the recovery delay should make for a more snappy experience as recovery data not being backed up so frequently?


I think if you want to turn OFF this tab backup facility then set this key to false


browser.sessionstore.enabled

which is what I think I will do


My 'theoretical facts' come from SSD test data (as reported by the manufacturers who thoroughly test SSDs). As for the recovery data, I prefer being able to recover web pages over keeping lots of tabs open.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

kwackers
Posts: 14613
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby kwackers » 6 Oct 2016, 1:38pm

661-Pete wrote:I would have thought, a good OS/browser combo, would also be so organised as to spread the write cycles evenly about the physical device, so as to maximise its lifetime. But there: I've never been involved in that sort of stuff, and I can't answer for Microsoft or Google (or even Mozilla)!

It's not really anything to do with the OS or browser, they have to be agnostic about how data is handled internally on the storage device.

Most (if not all) SSD controllers deliberately roll data around by abstracting the address mapping. So in theory even if you continually read and write the same file over and over it'll simply move around the SSD anyway.

User avatar
Feek
Posts: 22
Joined: 5 Sep 2016, 8:16pm
Location: Essex, England.

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby Feek » 6 Oct 2016, 2:00pm

Let's not forget something very important here.

All storage devices will fail. This is absolute, nobody can argue this point.

Mechanical drives will fail
SSDs will fail

As it happens, modern SSDs will probably last longer than mechanical drives.

As far as I'm concerned, data doesn't exist unless it's stored in at least three places, preferably with one of them being in a remote location.

Keep backups, regular backups and make sure you test restore from time to time. Cloud storage backups are cheap these days, I pay less than a dollar a week for an unlimited backup solution and I do a test restore every couple of months. I also have important data in Dropbox and all my data and media (and there's a lot of media) in two other local backups.

Everything happens automatically with no involvement from me whatsoever.

Accept that one day you'll switch on/wake up your computer and the storage device will be broken. Be prepared to work around that inevitable situation and you'll be fine.

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 9802
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby 661-Pete » 6 Oct 2016, 2:24pm

The Indus Valley tablets (age ~4000-5500 years) are still readable after all this time. Pity no-one has yet managed to decipher them....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 49468
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby Mick F » 7 Oct 2016, 2:08pm

Feek wrote:Accept that one day you'll switch on/wake up your computer and the storage device will be broken. Be prepared to work around that inevitable situation and you'll be fine.
Yep.
I have no data on this MacBookAir, just Safari bookmarks and a few emails. My Address Book is duplicated on my mobile phone.

Two or three days ago, I dropped this MacBook directly downwards onto a hard floor from a couple of feet. It was switched on and lid closed, so it was asleep, but hadn't been for long - just a few seconds.

As you can see, I'm still operating it, and there's no visible signs of damage ...........................

.......................... except the clicky pad doesn't click any more. I can't click and drag, and that seems to be the limit of the defect.
With a Mac, you can use one finger, two fingers or three fingers. Using the three can take the place of the click and drag, so I'm only a bit inconvenienced.

Back in the old days, if I'd dropped our iBook, that would have been end of it. :lol: :lol:
Solid state stuff is so much more reliable.
Mick F. Cornwall

Psamathe
Posts: 11384
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby Psamathe » 7 Oct 2016, 3:36pm

Mick F wrote:...My Address Book is duplicated on my mobile phone.
...

You need to be careful using "syncing" as a backup. On more than one occasion when a device has lost it's storage (or suffered corruption), they sync has gone the "other way". e.g. Mac and iPhone sync, iPhone corrupts and loses it's contacts, iPhone syncs to iCloud (that all Contacts have been deleted), iCloud sync's those changes to the perfectly good Mac and updates the Mac to reflect the iPhone (i.e. all contacts deleted - as the iPhone has the most recent changes). Same can happen with any automatically sync'd data.

I have suffered such problems and that is when you need the independent backup.

Ian

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby meic » 7 Oct 2016, 3:58pm

With a Mac, you can use one finger,
Windows 10 can raise the same sentiment in me, especially after updates. :lol:
Yma o Hyd

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 18297
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby Vorpal » 7 Oct 2016, 5:53pm

meic wrote:
With a Mac, you can use one finger,
Windows 10 can raise the same sentiment in me, especially after updates. :lol:

I tried Windows 10. I changed it back :twisted:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

mercalia
Posts: 13719
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby mercalia » 7 Oct 2016, 7:02pm

Vorpal wrote:
meic wrote:
With a Mac, you can use one finger,
Windows 10 can raise the same sentiment in me, especially after updates. :lol:

I tried Windows 10. I changed it back :twisted:


to what?

it is very strange how topics morph from one thing to another? :lol:

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 49468
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby Mick F » 7 Oct 2016, 7:07pm

Psamathe wrote:
Mick F wrote:...My Address Book is duplicated on my mobile phone.
...

You need to be careful using "syncing" as a backup.
No syncing at all.
It's manual. I key them in.

When I save a new contact, I save it to my SIM. That way, I can fit my SIM in another phone, and still retain my contacts.
Mick F. Cornwall

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 9802
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby 661-Pete » 7 Oct 2016, 9:41pm

I have an external HDD. 1 Terabyte (TB) which it's going to take me years to fill up - even what with all the RAW astronomy piccies....

That's all I need. I back up the personal stuff (not the system files - if the computer throws a wobbly I expect to get a new one, in which they'll all be different of course!). Simple Copy. No 'synchronise' nor any such wizardry for me!

Then the external HDD gets put away in a cupboard, until it's time for the next backup.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17498
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Firefox Browser Users Warning! SSD wear and tear

Postby [XAP]Bob » 7 Oct 2016, 11:48pm

I have about 4TB of external storage, and am rather short....

SSD wear levelling is good enough for most cases, indeed file systems won't necessarily be written to disk that frequently anyway... Even if they are written to the 'disk' the disk will have a cache as well...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.