Cycling UK Forum

Flinders wrote:

pwa wrote:I also think black cars are a bad idea, for that very reason. But I am not "victim blaming" drivers of black cars for every other vehicle that drives into them.

I have spent my working life in industries where hi-viz is normal work wear, so for me it seems abnormal to be in an area of raised risk without a hi-viz top. Wearing it does not, for me, imply that the activity is too dangerous to be done sanely. It just implies that reasonable care is needed. Which it is.

Our car is black (not our choice, the only one available in the type and size 2nd hand at the time- even that had to be sent halfway across the country to our main dealer).
I wouldn't want another one. It's clear from they way other drivers drive that they don't see it as easily as the white one we had.
It's also clear that the best colour for encouraging other drivers to give the car space is red. When we had a red one, we were given lots more space.
I understand that people think drivers of red cars are risk takers (though I'm deffo not a risk-taker myself) and should be given more space............

I think the size of the car is a factor too. For the last 8 years, we had a black Ford Focus estate, which is quite a big car. Since we no longer have a dog, we part exchanged it for a bright red VW UP! which is a significantly smaller car. We now find that we tend to get bullied by drivers of bigger cars - pulling out in front of us, flashing us to get out of their way and cutting in front in traffic queues. We also have a black Vauxhall Corsa inherited from my late father and the bullying is worse in the VW, despite its colour.

TrevA wrote:I think the size of the car is a factor too. For the last 8 years, we had a black Ford Focus estate, which is quite a big car. Since we no longer have a dog, we part exchanged it for a bright red VW UP! which is a significantly smaller car. We now find that we tend to get bullied by drivers of bigger cars - pulling out in front of us, flashing us to get out of their way and cutting in front in traffic queues. We also have a black Vauxhall Corsa inherited from my late father and the bullying is worse in the VW, despite its colour.

Mrs R2 used to have a red Nissan Micra we both found we got bullied when driving it.
My white Mondeo estate at the time was a completely different experience though

I find the occasional German prestige car driver tries to bully me in our dark blue C max

reohn2 wrote:Mrs R2 used to have a red Nissan Micra we both found we got bullied when driving it.
My white Mondeo estate at the time was a completely different experience though

I find the occasional German prestige car driver tries to bully me in our dark blue C max

Well, you know, of course, that anything of sufficent expense (e.g. more than five times median income) trumps size.

Vorpal wrote:

reohn2 wrote:Mrs R2 used to have a red Nissan Micra we both found we got bullied when driving it.
My white Mondeo estate at the time was a completely different experience though

I find the occasional German prestige car driver tries to bully me in our dark blue C max

Well, you know, of course, that anything of sufficent expense (e.g. more than five times median income) trumps size.

That'll be about right

Cycling one could dress to look like a police officer, maybe a POLITE officer. Driving, when the terrorists dazzle from behind one could try the fog light.

A couple of posters who saw cyclists just in time may have been going too fast. One should always reckon with invisible objects such as a tree that has just fallen on the road.

As cyclists driving we annoy normal drivers by going too slowly, but are we slow enough, would we cover a million miles without an "accident"?

Cyril Haearn wrote:Cycling one could dress to look like a police officer, maybe a POLITE officer. Driving, when the terrorists dazzle from behind one could try the fog light.

A couple of posters who saw cyclists just in time may have been going too fast. One should always reckon with invisible objects such as a tree that has just fallen on the road.

As cyclists driving we annoy normal drivers by going too slowly, but are we slow enough, would we cover a million miles without an "accident"?

I think I drive like you. Cautious. But even I was caught out once. When I was cycling, ironically. Hit a jet black bullock on a pitch black lane. My eyes read it as a shadow or something, not as a 3D object blocking the road. I realised what it was too late and skidded into it. No real harm done, but it shows how we can misread dark objects on dark roads. And if I can do that on a bicycle I can do it in a car. So can you. Unless you are perfect.

pwa wrote:

Cyril Haearn wrote:A couple of posters who saw cyclists just in time may have been going too fast. One should always reckon with invisible objects such as a tree that has just fallen on the road.

As cyclists driving we annoy normal drivers by going too slowly, but are we slow enough, would we cover a million miles without an "accident"?

I think I drive like you. Cautious. But even I was caught out once. When I was cycling, ironically. Hit a jet black bullock on a pitch black lane. My eyes read it as a shadow or something, not as a 3D object blocking the road. I realised what it was too late and skidded into it. No real harm done, but it shows how we can misread dark objects on dark roads. And if I can do that on a bicycle I can do it in a car. So can you. Unless you are perfect.

Well, yes, but then you admit it was your fault and made a mistake, rather than say the animal should have been wearing hi-viz or whatever!

At night, I generally drive in fear of deer when heading anything other than immediately west out onto the fens. I've seen enough cars trashed on the side of the road to know the local forests are pretty dodgy driving territory. The fens have other dangers but not so much cover for large animals to sneak onto the roads.

mjr wrote:

pwa wrote:

Cyril Haearn wrote:A couple of posters who saw cyclists just in time may have been going too fast. One should always reckon with invisible objects such as a tree that has just fallen on the road.

As cyclists driving we annoy normal drivers by going too slowly, but are we slow enough, would we cover a million miles without an "accident"?

I think I drive like you. Cautious. But even I was caught out once. When I was cycling, ironically. Hit a jet black bullock on a pitch black lane. My eyes read it as a shadow or something, not as a 3D object blocking the road. I realised what it was too late and skidded into it. No real harm done, but it shows how we can misread dark objects on dark roads. And if I can do that on a bicycle I can do it in a car. So can you. Unless you are perfect.

Well, yes, but then you admit it was your fault and made a mistake, rather than say the animal should have been wearing hi-viz or whatever!

At night, I generally drive in fear of deer when heading anything other than immediately west out onto the fens. I've seen enough cars trashed on the side of the road to know the local forests are pretty dodgy driving territory. The fens have other dangers but not so much cover for large animals to sneak onto the roads.

What surprised me was how I misread the dark patch in front of me. It was on a steep downhill with the road leveling out beyond, so that what was actually a solid object standing up maybe 50 metres in front of me looked to me like a black patch, perhaps a puddle, on the flat bit of road beyond. By the time I had realised my mistake it was too late to do more than lose some speed before impact. Putting hi-viz on cattle (which I'm sure the owner did not intend being on the road) is a bit OTT, but for those of us intending to be on dark lanes it is a good idea. Anything to avoid confusion.

Around here nearly everyone on the dark narrow lanes at night has some sort of visibility aid. Dog walkers, joggers and cyclists. The car drivers here know what a hi-viz vest means and seem to use it as a cue to slow right down and hug one side of the road.

(I was once driving along the M4 near Margam Park when a red deer stag sprang out and ran across all six lanes without being hit. Frightening. But that was in daylight.)

pwa wrote:Putting hi-viz on cattle (which I'm sure the owner did not intend being on the road) is a bit OTT, but for those of us intending to be on dark lanes it is a good idea. Anything to avoid confusion.

Around here nearly everyone on the dark narrow lanes at night has some sort of visibility aid. Dog walkers, joggers and cyclists. The car drivers here know what a hi-viz vest means and seem to use it as a cue to slow right down and hug one side of the road.

As you probably already know, I feel that sort of hi-viz over-use probably encourages motorists into thinking that dark objects are simply dark bits of road or puddles or whatever. It's very easy to slip into driving blind into what one can't see to be obstructed (driving by negative exception), rather than driving within what one can see to be clear (driving by positive confirmation) and I don't want to be complicit in spreading that and destroying more local buildings and possibly killing my neighbours and innocent wildlife. I see someone spun a car into my old doctor's surgery last week:

Perhaps all buildings next to roads should be hi viz and reflective?

Barks wrote:Perhaps all buildings next to roads should be hi viz and reflective?

Perhaps the Audi driver thought the offending surgery should have got out of their way,as it seems to be habit of more than enough German prestige car drivers

PWA
Your Bullock incident seems to indicate a need for better lighting,perhaps an extra 'main beam' front light?

Barks wrote:Perhaps all buildings next to roads should be hi viz and reflective?

Notjust buildings. Drivers manage tohit all sorts of things. Bus shelters, trees, hedges, lampposts, other cars. Paint them all hiviz.

Until every exhortation to cyclists and pedestrians to wear hiviz i
s accompanied by an exhortation to drivers to obey HC para 126 I will call it victim blaming.
I have NEVER heard this.

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